Boris to make imminent announcement on schools, any guesses?!

[Adviceneededalways]

Do we think an extension delaying opening or is he going to try and get children back in sooner...

I have to say I think the latter would be a fucking disaster but I wouldn’t be at all surprised...

Re schools, maybe a compromise would be to ensure all CV staff (and perhaps CV pupils aged 16+) are at least vaccinated as a priority, before expected to be in work with no measures to protect their health.

And the option for CV children and those with CV members of their household to remain out of school until those adults are vaccinated, without risk of fines.

Not sure they are planning in vaccinating children, even if CV.

Or a return gradually with a rota system accompanied by a massive crack down in critical care worker place eligibility - such as BOTH parents in the household needing to be critical workers, not working from home unless very specific reasons as to why it's necessary, part time for only the days the critical worker is at work, etc. Not pupils for some critical worker families I'm sure, but it would free up more space for rota to work.

@Zandathepanda

My clinically vulnerable Yr12 hasn’t been vaccinated yet. No idea of dates for her.

This is interesting as my DS is also year 12 and also clinically vulnerable (priority level 6).

The vaccine is licensed for over 16 I think, so would these sixth formers who have health conditions be eligible for vaccination before returning to school?

I think this is a valid area of discussion that isn't being considered at the moment.

Re schools, maybe a compromise would be to ensure all CV staff (and perhaps CV pupils aged 16+) are at least vaccinated as a priority

I just raised this issue and cross-posted!

Was hoping primary would be back after half term but had a feeling they wouldn't be. Our school provision is dire and I doubt they're going to change it if they think it's only until 8th March.

Feel so sorry for children and young adults in all this. Our neighbour just screamed over the fence for our children to shut up. They're playing outside in the garden. Yes they're being noisy, but they've been out for ten minutes (first time today) and it won't be for long. They can't go to school, everywhere is shut, we've exhausted all local parks and walks over and over again, and now this lady thinks they're too noisy playing in their own garden. Don't know what the solution is, just feeling fed up for them.

And logically you have to consider vaccinating the CV priority level 5 and downwards (mostly will be in priority level 6) parents also.

We are all fncked

😂😂

@SinkGirl

Some threads here are full of parents flapping because their kids "won't" do xyz. Who is the parent again?

Please do come and get my children to engage in an activity. Any single activity, I don’t care what it is.

While my kids are obviously at the significant end of SEN, there are plenty with lower level SEN who are struggling massively. If children genuinely can’t engage then don’t assume it’s because their parents are shit.

I see your posts a lot @SinkGirl and respect you hugely. Unfortunately, just like with mask wearing and breaking lockdown rules for not special reasons, the true impact is only felt by those who genuinely struggle, like yourself.

You can't deny that some parents (a lot of whom moan about teachers constantly) simply can't be bothered to discipline their children, are struggling with home schooling as an extension of that, and want to shove their children in school and spread the virus further purely because they fail to step up.

You are about as far away from the above as one can get!

@Sparklfairy Not me. I'm worrying about my kids mental and physical health.

I am one of the few lucky people who have two children, two different schools, receiving a full live timetable of lessons, 5 days a week. I have no idea what school work they're doing, I just get a report from both schools confirming their 'attendance' and also their 'effort' and 'commitment.' (Please note, I'm still undecided on my feelings of this, in some ways it's brilliant, in others it's a lot of pressure for them - and the teachers, of whom I don't bash since I'm a governor and friends with lots of teachers, so can see their pressure.) Will also note - these are schools with questionable ofsted reports and with a very 'vulnerable' catchment. Just so people don't assume they're at private schools!)

I want schools open as my kids being on screen 8.30-3pm 5 days a week, plus in the evening (if I want them to be able to socialise with their friends). We try our hardest to push exercise and outside time, but husband and I both work full time (before you jump on, I'm at my desk eating my lunch). We take them out for walks and bike rides at the weekends, and push them into the garden in their breaks, but it's not the same as sports clubs 5/6 days a week, plus PE, plus the park after school with their mates, or letting off steam with other kids at their age.

I'm not saying OPEN THEM NOW, but I am asaP - the P being the main word there.

Lots of caveats there - sorry!

@Mumsnet

Can we have Chris Whitty on for a Q and A? Or JVT?

@Vintagevixen

Do you have a source for this? This is completely counter logical. You are also aware that in Israel masks were compulsory in schools...

*What is your exposure level?

If you have a job that means you can WFH then no, if you do a job that exposures you at a similar level to the “20 something” teacher then of course you should be ahead.*

Look at us 21st century Europeans fighting over vaccines. How evolved!

I would like schools to re-open. I have no skin in the game, no children at home, but I see the stress it is causing.

HOWEVER, every family with children at school should then be prepared to be very very restricted in ALL their other contacts.

Because your children are mixing in school, in non-safe. non-COVID secure ways, that means you MUST restrict even more in your home - no mixing, no "bubbles". That way, as many infection vectors as possible are shut down, to allow schools (with huge cross- infection risks) to continue.

In the Autumn lockdown, when schools were still open, I read here & elsewhere of families saying "Well, my child mixes with all sorts at school, so I don't see why we can't all do what we want."

You have to stop thinking that way: it's because your child mixes with all sorts that you can't all mix as you wish away from school.

I'm happy to restrict & lockdown to enable children & young people to continue with their educations, but families with children at school have to realise that that is our society's sacrifice which they need to respect by following very strict guidelines about mixing outside of school, so as to contain cross-infections as much as possible.

Israel are planning to vaccinate 16&17 year olds. Apparently they have seen an increase in children needing hospital treatment. I imagine we'll eventually do the same.

Im glad he is pushing it back, but it's going to be a long 5 weeks.

@RigaBalsam ONS survey was from between 9 March to 28 December I believe, so schools were open some of the time i.e. since September.

And surely deaths imply illness e.g. if rates of illness among teachers were abnormally high then surely deaths would also be abnormally high for the profession, but the ONS survey doesn't point to this.

[quote nevertrustaherdofcows]@Mumsnet

Can we have Chris Whitty on for a Q and A? Or JVT?[/quote]
They both work as medics as well as their 'office' duties, so they most likely won't have the time.

@Thislittlefinger123

Was hoping primary would be back after half term but had a feeling they wouldn't be. Our school provision is dire and I doubt they're going to change it if they think it's only until 8th March.

Feel so sorry for children and young adults in all this. Our neighbour just screamed over the fence for our children to shut up. They're playing outside in the garden. Yes they're being noisy, but they've been out for ten minutes (first time today) and it won't be for long. They can't go to school, everywhere is shut, we've exhausted all local parks and walks over and over again, and now this lady thinks they're too noisy playing in their own garden. Don't know what the solution is, just feeling fed up for them.

I try not to get angry reading MN but honestly... your poor DC. I would have a word with her and explain but that's ridiculous. Kids can make noise in their own bloody garden lockdown or no lockdown. (Unless it's 6am!)

[quote Vintagevixen]@RigaBalsam ONS survey was from between 9 March to 28 December I believe, so schools were open some of the time i.e. since September.

And surely deaths imply illness e.g. if rates of illness among teachers were abnormally high then surely deaths would also be abnormally high for the profession, but the ONS survey doesn't point to this.[/quote]
There isn't the data for those needing oxygen. The infection rate is higher if you look at other data.

[quote Hazelnutlatteplease]@Vintagevixen

Do you have a source for this? This is completely counter logical. You are also aware that in Israel masks were compulsory in schools...[/quote]
Cant post links as I am tech useless on my laptop!

However it is on Medrxiv - where papers are published pre peer review. Look for " No evidence of association between schools and SArs-cov-2 second wave in Italy" by Gandini, Rainisio et al.

The Israel study is on Oxford academic website.

Wish I could work out how to link on this bloody laptop!! I'm learning....

[quote Doomsdayiscoming]@Sparklfairy
Restaurants before schools?

Get real. Children’s education is far more important than any bullshit part of our consumerist economy.[/quote]
Don't blame me for capitalism. Eat out to help out didn't cause a massive spike in hospitalisations and spread. Schools were chaos come September, plus Christmas. Pick the bug up at school, go to relatives for Christmas, spread it to family...

Every single parent knows that if you put your child in nursery, you will have them bringing every bug going home. Parents of older children expect headline, worms, noro and everything else.

My DM homeschooled three kids at once. One (not me ) was an absolute nightmare to get anything done, and would probably be assessed for ADHD or similar today. She didn't have a choice at that point, and maybe I've just seen that the lack of grit and resilience of the general public throughout this pandemic has translated to homeschooling for a short while somehow being 'unbearable, open the schools and fuck everyone else because I can't cope' is just a step too far. It does end up impacting the ones who genuinely struggle and have additional needs, and that's not fair.

@Thislittlefinger123

Was hoping primary would be back after half term but had a feeling they wouldn't be. Our school provision is dire and I doubt they're going to change it if they think it's only until 8th March.

Feel so sorry for children and young adults in all this. Our neighbour just screamed over the fence for our children to shut up. They're playing outside in the garden. Yes they're being noisy, but they've been out for ten minutes (first time today) and it won't be for long. They can't go to school, everywhere is shut, we've exhausted all local parks and walks over and over again, and now this lady thinks they're too noisy playing in their own garden. Don't know what the solution is, just feeling fed up for them.

This is so sad and unfair of your neighbour. I live near my DCs school and can hear all the children screaming and playing every break time. I think it’s a lovely sound, children having fun. At the moment though it just makes me feel so sad that my DC are stuck at home and can’t join in. I understand why we have to keep schools closed to the “majority” (although it sounds to me like the majority are at school where I live) but it doesn’t make it any easier.

I have to say that MN in general have a lot of folk with very unhealthy attitudes to what will be to most a mild illness. Do we just close schools until there is no Covid?

I don't think the teachers on here represent the feelings of teachers in general either. There are some teachers who will not be happy with any kind of reopening of schools until Covid has gone (spoiler, not likely to be any time soon).

I will wait now for someone to come on and tell me that they have had 68 teachers die in their. ONS published data yesterday saying teachers less likely to die of Covid than the general population and it seemed to me that some teachers on here were unhappy about that.

I am glad to say in real life the teachers that I know don't feel like that and have been happy to be teaching in school. Plus the teachers at my kids' school are epic.

@Abraxan

Re schools, maybe a compromise would be to ensure all CV staff (and perhaps CV pupils aged 16+) are at least vaccinated as a priority, before expected to be in work with no measures to protect their health.

And the option for CV children and those with CV members of their household to remain out of school until those adults are vaccinated, without risk of fines.

Not sure they are planning in vaccinating children, even if CV.

Or a return gradually with a rota system accompanied by a massive crack down in critical care worker place eligibility - such as BOTH parents in the household needing to be critical workers, not working from home unless very specific reasons as to why it's necessary, part time for only the days the critical worker is at work, etc. Not pupils for some critical worker families I'm sure, but it would free up more space for rota to work.

That makes much more sense than Keir Starmer’s point today. It should also include CV parents too I think if we are expecting children back in school. My son is in a crucial exam year so keeping him home while classmates go back to school wouldn’t be a decision I’d like to take. It is probably sensible to wait though. We all want our children in school but there is too much at risk by hasty actions, including new vaccine resistant variants developing with wide community spread. My main worry is the short term thinking in the clamour for schools to open. I want some normality for my children ( as we all do ) and the best route to that is to open when vulnerable groups have been vaccinated. If cases rise then, hopefully there will be no need for further closures.

If doesn't matter if you wfh or sahm the vast majority of children are demotivated and are struggling with the change. Blaming parents does not help the situation. Let's all be kind and just do what you can do in the meantime.

@Greyce

*What is your exposure level?

If you have a job that means you can WFH then no, if you do a job that exposures you at a similar level to the “20 something” teacher then of course you should be ahead.*

Look at us 21st century Europeans fighting over vaccines. How evolved!

I’m talking from their perspective.

I’m more than happy for my vaccine to go an octogenarian in the developing world.

Not sure how they would collect data on those needing oxygen - they would of course come under hospital admissions I guess, may be in the ICNARC data though which is pretty thorough. ICNARC Doesn't analyse stuff by profession of the patient though - I used to do the raw data input on ICNARC as part of being an ITU sister and though some patient demographics are recorded I don't recall profession being one of them, or much analysed by that.

Its been a few years thoughsince I had to do any ICNARC thank god!