Boris to make imminent announcement on schools, any guesses?!

[Adviceneededalways]

Do we think an extension delaying opening or is he going to try and get children back in sooner...

I have to say I think the latter would be a fucking disaster but I wouldn’t be at all surprised...

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I don’t bloody want a 6 week holiday over winter thank you very much.

I do in the anyone would prefer that.

But if cases are naturally lower over summer and are predicted to rise again next winter (which they have said we may need some restrictions) it maybe worthwhile for just a year instead of school closures.

And believe me as someone who works in education it's the last thing I want to do. It just maybe we need to do it.

I just feel that if we’re going to keep so many kids out of school to stop the spread they need to crack down on other things too. I walked past 3 offices today with 10+ people in, no masks, no social distancing. Our bin men don’t wear masks or distance. Nor do the builders in the construction site on the corner. Feels like our children are going to suffer for longer because adults don’t like to follow rules. I’d also dramatically tighten up the critical workers eligibility for a school place so schools don’t have up to 70% in. That story of a child who is one of only 4 in her class not in (on another thread) was so awful!

@Vintagevixen

We love winter *@ancientgran* - both me and DD detest summer, so a longer winter holiday would be ok with me. Probably a factor in my wishing for summer schools to be fair!

They won't get much vitamin D though. I think waiting the best part of a year before they get a decent break is an issue, July seems along way away to kids, next December might be an eternity.

I don't like it being too hot myself, ginger and freckled so I wasn't designed for the sun, but I do think the kids need some fun and I hope they can get it sooner rather than later.

In the "new" building we had murals and plaques and regularly had assemblies and alumni come to speak about that time.

Bless

@hahaboink

I just feel that if we’re going to keep so many kids out of school to stop the spread they need to crack down on other things too. I walked past 3 offices today with 10+ people in, no masks, no social distancing. Our bin men don’t wear masks or distance. Nor do the builders in the construction site on the corner. Feels like our children are going to suffer for longer because adults don’t like to follow rules. I’d also dramatically tighten up the critical workers eligibility for a school place so schools don’t have up to 70% in. That story of a child who is one of only 4 in her class not in (on another thread) was so awful!

This virus would end all by itself if people stopped spreading it. If it killed 100% of people who caught it, sure as hell it would have been stopped by now, because people who had it would not want to spread it to other people, and people who didn't have it would not want to catch it.

The fact that so many people just don't care, and there are so many people who don't even understand what Covid is, how it is transmitted, or what a vaccine is, doesn't help.

Until ignorant people take this seriously, and the rest of us start to care, this will go on and on.

Of course, you can always watch your television. It'll pat you on the head and tell you it'll all be over soon. When people are still on here next Christmas complaining, maybe more people will wake the F up. Unfortunately other will be dead.

What are the odds of 25M worldwide in the next 4 years?

@slothpaw

Changing the summer holiday would mean rewriting the entire curriculum.

It would also mean changing the pay and contract of every single school worker and everyone involved in keeping schools running. That means admin, business managers, cleaners, kitchen staff, food supply, stationery deliveries, lorry drivers, local council, Ofsted... the list goes on and on.

It's just not possible. It's a ridiculous suggestion.

Wow, what a shocking lack of imagination and flexibility you’re displaying there. If the world can shut down in a week, learning move online, furlough payments be rolled out, I’m sure we can manage to rejig a few contracts. We are in a pandemic after all!

@Doris86 they’ll have a six week holiday at some point anyway, as teachers aren’t paid all year round. Surely it makes sense to have it coincide with the peak time of year for respiratory illnesses and possible school closures.

@hahaboink

I just feel that if we’re going to keep so many kids out of school to stop the spread they need to crack down on other things too. I walked past 3 offices today with 10+ people in, no masks, no social distancing. Our bin men don’t wear masks or distance. Nor do the builders in the construction site on the corner. Feels like our children are going to suffer for longer because adults don’t like to follow rules. I’d also dramatically tighten up the critical workers eligibility for a school place so schools don’t have up to 70% in. That story of a child who is one of only 4 in her class not in (on another thread) was so awful!

How can bin men distance? There's literally one lorry and multiple men so not possible. I'm not sure many households anti aging their wheelie bin handle to help keep bin men safe.

How can bin men distance? There's literally one lorry and multiple men so not possible.
Put them in PPE, face masks, shields and gloves. It's not rocket science. If they won't wear PPE, furlough them. If the virus was 100% fatal, I bet they would find a way of protecting themselves and take it seriously. All they need to do is give a sh!t.

@LucyLockdown

Yeah, I don’t think I saw a single parent saying they didn’t want their kids to do any work over the summer, it was the teachers pointing out they weren’t paid.

Let me be the first then! (I'm not the first.) I absolutely won't allow my children to do any work over the summer. They'll be outside getting vitamin D (that we in the UK are all very much short of, which could be a contributing factor to the covid death rate) and fresh air and playing and having fun and enjoying a bit of freedom (I pray!) Maybe they'll take a fiction book to the beach but that's all!

Why am I not surprised?

@ElliFAntspoo

How can bin men distance? There's literally one lorry and multiple men so not possible. Put them in PPE, face masks, shields and gloves. It's not rocket science. If they won't wear PPE, furlough them. If the virus was 100% fatal, I bet they would find a way of protecting themselves and take it seriously. All they need to do is give a sh!t.

Ours have 2 cars travel round. Main lorry with 2 people distanced in masks. A van behind with 2 people distanced in masks.

Maybe not fool proof but certainly they are trying to put in mitigation's for them.

@ElliFAntspoo

How can bin men distance? There's literally one lorry and multiple men so not possible. Put them in PPE, face masks, shields and gloves. It's not rocket science. If they won't wear PPE, furlough them. If the virus was 100% fatal, I bet they would find a way of protecting themselves and take it seriously. All they need to do is give a sh!t.

Yet again. Divvies leaping to 'fatal'.

So what? We have 'a bit of a cold' and 'fatal' and no in between?

Jesus fucking Christ.

So what? We have 'a bit of a cold' and 'fatal' and no in between?

No. Your response is deliberately obtuse.
What I said was, people would act differently if it were 100% fatal. People would care more. You have absolutely made my point in your response. The point is, people control this virus.

I don't think a few years out of school is going to compromise our children's education. I do think it may create a bigger spread between the capable and the incompetent and bone idle

Surely all it does is show the people who have stay at home parents/parents with flexible jobs/money for tutors and those who do not? Or perhaps those who went to a school with a good online provision and those who didn't? Or those who are unable to engage with only worksheets for months? Or those with other issues that mean they don't engage at all at home?

Point being there are many reasons why some children will learn a lot at home and others won't.

*Ours have 2 cars travel round. Main lorry with 2 people distanced in masks. A van behind with 2 people distanced in masks.

Maybe not fool proof but certainly they are trying to put in mitigation's for them.*

Our local service is run by Serco which might be why it's not socially distanced

@ElliFAntspoo

So what? We have 'a bit of a cold' and 'fatal' and no in between?

No. Your response is deliberately obtuse.
What I said was, people would act differently if it were 100% fatal. People would care more. You have absolutely made my point in your response. The point is, people control this virus.

I said that all along you absolute bellend.

PP: open schools
Me: No ta, it encourages spread, cos, ya know, people.
Everyone: NO IT DOESN'T I NEED TO SEND MY KIDS IN COS XYZ REASON
Me: Ok
You: smug

I do apologise, you're gonna have to explain how me asking for clarification on your idiocy is somehow proving your point.

@ElliFAntspoo

How can bin men distance? There's literally one lorry and multiple men so not possible. Put them in PPE, face masks, shields and gloves. It's not rocket science. If they won't wear PPE, furlough them. If the virus was 100% fatal, I bet they would find a way of protecting themselves and take it seriously. All they need to do is give a sh!t.

You know masks, shields and gloves aren't a magic bullet, right? I can assure you that you can get covid even if you do wear a mask every time you go outside. If covid were 100% fatal, binmen wouldn't be out collecting bins, because it would be impossible to keep them safe.

I don't think a few years out of school is going to compromise our children's education. I do think it may create a bigger spread between the capable and the incompetent and bone idle

Spot the Tory.

@JM10

I don't think a few years out of school is going to compromise our children's education. I do think it may create a bigger spread between the capable and the incompetent and bone idle

Surely all it does is show the people who have stay at home parents/parents with flexible jobs/money for tutors and those who do not? Or perhaps those who went to a school with a good online provision and those who didn't? Or those who are unable to engage with only worksheets for months? Or those with other issues that mean they don't engage at all at home?

Point being there are many reasons why some children will learn a lot at home and others won't.

No. The point is that children do not need the level of education they are given in order to succeed in life. Those of the earlier generation, who have been told they must spend their lives studying, striving for the best grades and then getting a good degree, and who find themselves unemployable only have themselves to blame for believing all the BS they were told to believe and not taking the time out to look at the world around them. Give me a 20 something with honesty, integrity, intelligence and a passion for life over one with a CV and a belief that their qualification means that they know things any day. Because the first can learn, and the second cannot until you've broken down all the crap they've already been mis-taught. Outside of a few select careers and perpetual employment within academia perpetuating the myth, the majority of higher education is a really bad investment.

Kids don't need to learn calculus and matrices unless mathematics is a passion, and if that is their passion, they'll learn it without the teacher anyways. You certainly don't need to fill classrooms with kids all learning stuff they cannot and will not ever be able to use.

Children succeed because of who they are. Because of the types of people they are. The ones who succeed are the ones who want to bring value to the world around them, and this is so much more the case now in a world where the traditional corporate structures are more fluid, and the the traditional economic environments of the past have failed.

Parents can either continue to hang on to old notions of get your qualifications, go to university and get a job - and there is a whole generation of millennials who have been told this and will attest to how bad that advice is - or they can stop pilling all their anxieties and fears onto their children, quit stressing them out, and trust that if they have brought up happy, well balanced, confident kids, they'll figure out how to fly on their own.

Of course, if someone has already brought up an anxious teenage with low self worth, no interest outside of a games console, and no ability to hold a coherent conversation, then its a hard one. But school cannot be blamed for that. That happens for reasons closer to home.

You know masks, shields and gloves aren't a magic bullet, right? I can assure you that you can get covid even if you do wear a mask every time you go outside.

What I do know is that if you prevent the virus from entering the holes in your face, you are 99% protected. If you do not have any open wounds, and the virus does not enter your genital or anal orifices, you are 100% protected.

How well you choose to protect the holes in your body, and how diligent you are at not transferring matter from your clothes or your environment into your body is entirely a matter for you.

If covid were 100% fatal, binmen wouldn't be out collecting bins, because it would be impossible to keep them safe.

Absolutely, and I wouldn't blame them. But them if this were a 100% fatal virus, it would have been eliminated in April last year. We would have closed the borders immediately, isolated anyone who came into contact with it, and their friends and families, been honest with people about the nature of the virus and how to protect oneself from airborne viruses, and it would not have been permitted to spread.

We are so lucky this is such a mild sickness.

What I do know is that if you prevent the virus from entering the holes in your face, you are 99% protected. If you do not have any open wounds, and the virus does not enter your genital or anal orifices, you are 100% protected.

"Know" is not the correct word for this as it is not based in fact. Here is one place informing you that wearing a mask does not 100% prevent people getting infected with the virus. www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201022/masks-block-virus-particles-but-not-entirely

How well you choose to protect the holes in your body, and how diligent you are at not transferring matter from your clothes or your environment into your body is entirely a matter for you.

Don't blame individuals for catching covid. One of the most diligent people I know is currently in hospital with covid. It was not because they weren't being diligent, but random, shitty luck and a job in which wearing a mask was not enough protection.

Vintagevixen. It's great that it didnt affect italy or israel. Do you know why though? perhaps because they along with every other country almost in the whole world had kids and teachers in masks? ntr

It's a lso great we then know the measures that need to be taken and yet in england teachers and students are specifically told not to wear masks.
we
Clearly because kids arent getting a vax so gov are happy for it to spread.

The r near me os over 0.7 if schools go back (0.4 altogether) it will likely go over 1. That is without th e pubs gym kids actiivitiies etc. It doesnt matter how low cases go if r is above 1 it will gradually grow.
Schools back sooner with masks and rotas = sustainable maybe r of only 0.2

@HSHorror

Vintagevixen. It's great that it didnt affect italy or israel. Do you know why though? perhaps because they along with every other country almost in the whole world had kids and teachers in masks? ntr

It's a lso great we then know the measures that need to be taken and yet in england teachers and students are specifically told not to wear masks.
we
Clearly because kids arent getting a vax so gov are happy for it to spread.

The r near me os over 0.7 if schools go back (0.4 altogether) it will likely go over 1. That is without th e pubs gym kids actiivitiies etc. It doesnt matter how low cases go if r is above 1 it will gradually grow.
Schools back sooner with masks and rotas = sustainable maybe r of only 0.2

Correlation is not always causation though - you can't just single out one factor. Masks are not a magic bullet.

@Puzzler333

What I do know is that if you prevent the virus from entering the holes in your face, you are 99% protected. If you do not have any open wounds, and the virus does not enter your genital or anal orifices, you are 100% protected.

"Know" is not the correct word for this as it is not based in fact. Here is one place informing you that wearing a mask does not 100% prevent people getting infected with the virus. www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201022/masks-block-virus-particles-but-not-entirely

How well you choose to protect the holes in your body, and how diligent you are at not transferring matter from your clothes or your environment into your body is entirely a matter for you.

Don't blame individuals for catching covid. One of the most diligent people I know is currently in hospital with covid. It was not because they weren't being diligent, but random, shitty luck and a job in which wearing a mask was not enough protection.

Masks - Okay. Maybe I should have said, "Wear an appropriate mask that is correctly fitted, that you know works and have confidence in." Picking holes in an argument simply because it is not long enough and specific enough about the minutia of exactly how to wear and mask and what mask you need to wear is just pedantic.

Infection Routes - These are known. They have never changed. People may have believed what they were told - don't wear masks. Don't worry it cant go in your eyes. - More fool them for ignoring their own common sense and not doing basic research for themselves. Absolutely, if you allow access to your eyes, nose or mouth, a virus can enter your body.

Now, you may not want to protect yourself. You may feel silly wearing a Tyvek suit and goggles. You may may be told you are not allowed to go to work wearing PPE and if you do want to protect yourself you'll be fired. Those are choices an individual has to make for themselves and their families.

Yes, they may not be protecting themselves effectively under duress, or out of a sense of giving to others, or through lack of knowledge, or lack of preparation and foresight. But they are still choices they are exercising. If this were more than a mild flu for most people - if this were much more deadly - a lot of those people you think are unwittingly being infected would be taking this a lot more seriously and protecting themselves and their families a lot more than they do.

You only need to read threads on MN to see how serious many people think this is when many cannot wait to get their kids back out catching and spreading Covid.

Clearly because kids aren't getting a vax so gov are happy for it to spread.

I do wish people would stop harping on about vaccines and pretending they stop people from catching and spreading a virus.

The only difference between a kid with a vaccine and a kid without a vaccine is that the kid with the vaccine is less likely to show symptoms and less likely to feel the effects of the virus.

The only difference between a teacher with a vaccine and a teacher without a vaccine is that the teacher with the vaccine is less likely to show symptoms and less likely to feel the effects of the virus.

Both teachers and children can catch and spread the virus regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not. So sending your kids into large groups and waiting for them to catch viruses and bring them home to mummy and daddy is dumb however you cut it.