UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?

[LacyEdge]

Prof Alice Roberts started an interesting Twitter thread discussing this, linking to Nafeez Ahmed’s article about U4T in Byline Times. Replies suggest UsForThem aren’t a concerned parents’ group at all and are linked with a far right funded group.

Well I never.

twitter.com/theAliceRoberts/status/1352993581414424576

It blows my mind that anyone is scientifically illiterate enough to think an airborne virus is best ignored.

I don't think we should ignore it. We need to be protecting the vulnerable with measures which actually work.

Temptashun

You make a lot of bold scientific claims. Many are dubious.

Care to share your scientific credentials with us. I read it in UsForThem and watched in in YouTube don’t count.

We need to be protecting the vulnerable with measures which actually work.

I’m going to hazard a guess that you’re not thinking of reducing community infection rates to really low levels by suppressing the virus with mitigation measures and continuing with mitigation measures until the vaccination programme is complete.

More along the lines of locking them in a shed till everyone else has had covid.

@Temptashun

It blows my mind that anyone is scientifically illiterate enough to think an airborne virus is best ignored.

I don't think we should ignore it. We need to be protecting the vulnerable with measures which actually work.

Such as what?

They’ve been shielding.

My good mum friend from school got it despite going nowhere for a year. She and her husband worked, shopped, lived from home.

She’s now very ill.

How best could we have protected her.

How to protect those with carers, dependents, children in school.

Once we account for all underlying causes and family and carers we’re looking at half the population.

Which is pretty much lockdown with so many in school and work

@noblegiraffe

We need to be protecting the vulnerable with measures which actually work.

I’m going to hazard a guess that you’re not thinking of reducing community infection rates to really low levels by suppressing the virus with mitigation measures and continuing with mitigation measures until the vaccination programme is complete.

More along the lines of locking them in a shed till everyone else has had covid.

I think she does mean that. She forgets about the people they depend on and that many have been doing practically that anyway.

There’s something unsettling about insisting those with medical conditions are segregated and treated as lesser citizens.

As I said above it’s an impossible task. A utopian or dystopian dream.

And of course if we wait for everyone to have Covid we get more people with underlying conditions due to long Covid.

@noblegiraffe

We need to be protecting the vulnerable with measures which actually work.

I’m going to hazard a guess that you’re not thinking of reducing community infection rates to really low levels by suppressing the virus with mitigation measures and continuing with mitigation measures until the vaccination programme is complete.

More along the lines of locking them in a shed till everyone else has had covid.

Reducing transmission in winter involves locking everyone in a shed until winter is over or until everyone has had coronavirus or the vaccine anyway.

I've thought from the beginning that teachers who don't want to teach in school should teach remotely. Parents who don't want to send their kids in should be able to deregister without losing their place.

Let the others get back into the classrooms with no harmful and largely useless measures.

Oh please give it up temptashun. No one here is buying it.

Why is this shit still being talked about, every single point the anti-whatevers have made has been disputed, refuted and in most cases proved wrong with actual real data/evidence and STILL they don't get it.

And we're the idiots? If people weren't getting very sick, dying, struggling to cope, etc. It would be hilarious how one group of people can take a really bad situation and make it worse.

Fucking Nonsensical Claptrap.

JUST SHUT UP!

My good mum friend from school got it despite going nowhere for a year. She and her husband worked, shopped, lived from home.

She’s now very ill.

How best could we have protected her.

Erm. What you're saying is that total isolation doesn't work...?
Kinda defeats the point of lockdown then?

There’s something unsettling about insisting those with medical conditions are segregated and treated as lesser citizens.

But it's ok to segregate everybody instead, because equality?

The Teachers and Staff were right, it's been proven schools were a hotbed of infection. There is no discussion, you were wrong, get over it and get on with it.

@Temptashun

There’s something unsettling about insisting those with medical conditions are segregated and treated as lesser citizens.

But it's ok to segregate everybody instead, because equality?

That's like saying that sports day shouldn't go ahead because one kikd has a broken leg. It would seem right to the kid with the broken leg, but that's because children are immature.

Let the others get back into the classrooms with no harmful and largely useless measures.

So your plan to protect the vulnerable is to allow rampant covid in the community.

At what point will you be letting them leave the shed?

Does it rhyme with turd immunity?

@Turtleshelly

It’s ironic that the likes of Us for Them and the Covid Recovery Group keep pushing an anti lockdown agenda that pushes us to ease things too quickly... and end right back in lockdown! It’s maddening! Stop making us all suffer longer you muppets!

This.

@Temptashun

My good mum friend from school got it despite going nowhere for a year. She and her husband worked, shopped, lived from home.

She’s now very ill.

How best could we have protected her.

Erm. What you're saying is that total isolation doesn't work...?
Kinda defeats the point of lockdown then?

She caught it in December.

Pre lockdown.

Whilst her child was in school.

That’s not what I’m saying and your lack of empathy is alarming.

My point is that allowing it to spread affects the vulnerable even if they’re shielding.

Astounded you didn’t get that.

@Temptashun

There’s something unsettling about insisting those with medical conditions are segregated and treated as lesser citizens.

But it's ok to segregate everybody instead, because equality?

You seem to misunderstand the terms segregate and lesser.

@noblegiraffe

Let the others get back into the classrooms with no harmful and largely useless measures.

So your plan to protect the vulnerable is to allow rampant covid in the community.

At what point will you be letting them leave the shed?

Does it rhyme with turd immunity?

In Sweden, cases came down when ours did with no lockdown - May/June time.

So they'd feel more confident to be out in summer.

I think they should be out anyway, even whilst sheltering. Supermarkets and essential shops should remain socially distanced until cases are low permanently - extra so at certain allotted times. The vulnerable should be prioritised for home delivery.
There would also need to be social support - organised times for going to places with extra special measures - art galleries open on Tuesdays to the vulnerable (and chosen guests) only, with prebooked very limited numbers for example. Same with pubs and restaurants - subsidised by the government. It's super important to look after the mental health in this way, which in lockdown, none of us have.

And what about the kids who won’t be able to go to unsafe schools. What about their mental health?

Or will schools be socially distanced and masked on Tuesdays for them?

You seem to misunderstand the terms segregate and lesser.

Are you saying we aren't all divided and set apart from each other right now?

As for lesser - the rest of society protecting a group both financially and by taking on the burden of disease by keeping things running is treating them as 'lesser'?
Ok then.

@noblegiraffe

And what about the kids who won’t be able to go to unsafe schools. What about their mental health?

Or will schools be socially distanced and masked on Tuesdays for them?

Masks do not really offer any protection. They really don't. I know people are convinced that they do, despite the fact that cases everywhere have shot up around the world with strict mask mandates in place. If you're relying on them to protect vulnerable parents and teachers it's just a pipe dream. Social distancing is also not much cop when you're not just passing people by. I agree wholeheartedly with people who say that schools are not safe for the vulnerable. Perhaps that's not clear, but I do. No teacher with CEV should ever have been sent back to the classroom. The problem is that so many non CEV teachers have hysterical levels of fear considering their risk levels, and so are demanding things which harm children but don't really work. It's the cost to benefit ratio is just not worth it.

So, kids with vulnerable parents will need to learn from home if their parents don't want to take the risk. Maybe it would be good idea to have Mondays as highly socially distanced day contact time with teacher somewhere adequately ventilated.
The kids should have opportunities to play outside with others whilst socially distanced regularly, which would help their well being enormously.

It sucks for them, but it's better than all kids having to go through it when they don't have to. I know that some people think it's best to damage all of the children equally because 'it's fairer', but they've got a screw loose.

Masks do not really offer any protection

Yes they do.

cases everywhere have shot up around the world with strict mask mandates in place

Examples please.

hysterical levels of fear

Sexist. Just stop it.

and so are demanding things which harm children but don't really work

What are these "things" of which you speak?

they've got a screw loose

There you go, abuse instead of dealing with the arguments.

Masks do not really offer any protection

Yes they do

Then why haven't they worked anywhere?

Examples please

Spain, France, Germany, California, Slovenia, Italy, UK, pretty much everywhere with mask mandates....

hysterical levels of fear

Sexist. Just stop it.

The etymology might have sexist roots but the word is no longer limited to women, and I fully include lots of male teachers there.

and so are demanding things which harm children but don't really work

What are these "things" of which you speak?

The clue was in my post because they were the things that I spoke about - masks and social distancing.

they've got a screw loose

There you go, abuse instead of dealing with the argument

It would be more accurate to say abuse whilst dealing with the argument. Also, saying that they've got a screw loose is a pretty mild thing to say about people how want to harm children unnecessarily.

I know you'll never see it.
But I want you to know that I think, although it's being done with the best of intentions - you are making extremely bad, harmful choices for your children.
I'd like you to reconsider.

My Brother spouts exactly this sort of shit, keeps at it like a dog like a bone seemingly convinced that I am incapable if thinking for myself. One of his children has behavioural issues, he Is incapable of having a stable relationship, hasn’t seen my Dad for 14 years and is in general really not very functional as an adult or mentally stable.

But he would like me to reconsider. I consider him to need support with his mental health along with those calling people monsters for wanting a sensible approach for education after their approach has contributed to sky high community transmission and hospitals struggling hugely.

We have tried U4T way and it got us where we are. Why on earth would we repeat it?

@thecatfromjapan

It's a standard tactic of the New Right to find organisations and fund them, boost them, help run them.

It's also a standard tactic of the groups around the old ERG to have a really dispersed network of inter-related individuals involved in a tangle of organisations.

Look at any article about the Tufton Street group.

Better still, read p. 38 of 'Reaganland', which goes into some detail about how this mode of organising arose and was developed.

I'm fed up with these right-wing front groups, who amazingly, despite seeming to be 'grassroots', are somehow gifted enormous lobbying and press access.

Come on, when you were involved in a project to try and get something done about some issue, did you miraculously find you were able to get traction in mainstream media and get face-time with the government?

No.

Because that's not normal.

They are a front.

At the very least, they willingly allowed themselves to be co-opted.

But a front is more likely.

This sums it up perfectly!