UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?

[LacyEdge]

Prof Alice Roberts started an interesting Twitter thread discussing this, linking to Nafeez Ahmed’s article about U4T in Byline Times. Replies suggest UsForThem aren’t a concerned parents’ group at all and are linked with a far right funded group.

Well I never.

twitter.com/theAliceRoberts/status/1352993581414424576

Temptashun That just says there were no new cases, even amongst contacts of asymptomatic carriers. Suggesting immunity was present (contacts had already had it) or that precautions amongst the general public were such that contacts didn't catch coronavirus.

The article is reporting on the succesful suppression of the virus. Not how it spread (which may well have been through asymptomatic transmission.

It’s ironic that the likes of Us for Them and the Covid Recovery Group keep pushing an anti lockdown agenda that pushes us to ease things too quickly... and end right back in lockdown! It’s maddening!
Stop making us all suffer longer you muppets!

Marshmallow I looked at Twitter but didn’t click further, must admit I’ve not heard of the Byline Times before. Sounds a bit dodgy

But yes I’m not surprised there are connections. It’s unlikely to get far without some help.

Kids more likely to be asymptomatic. (Uni testing suggested 9/10 asymptomatic)

Kids also the most infected subset of the population.

Who are they catching it from?

@Temptashun

Just what do people think the odds of dying from coronavirus are?

You've all gone mad, I tell you. I thought people would be fighting tooth and nail to get the kids back into school without damaging measures that the kids don't need.

Wanting to shove stuff up their noses regularly and covering up their breathing holes and stopping them from playing properly.

What's the matter with yu all?
You're monsters.

And the people who push an agenda that leads to more deaths, more severe illness and more infection and thus more lockdowns and further lockdowns are saints, I guess!?

First article on Google - from the BMJ - on asymptomatic transmission tells me that:

-data on this question is difficult to obtain, owing to the fact asymptomatic people are asymptomatic and thus difficult to test for transmission

• tests of live virus and conjectures arising from that suggest transmission amongst asymptomatic may be lower - but still a fact: asymptomatic transmission takes place

• more research is needed.

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851

I've known three mothers who thought it was better to let their newborns scream with hunger for weeks rather than 'resort' to the bottle, because they were told 'breast is best, and the social pressure to breastfeed is so huge that despite not making enough milk, they were determined to continue.
If I have asked them 'By how much is breast best, and is it worth your baby's distress and weight loss?' they wouldn't have been able to answer the first part, and so would have no idea as to the second.

The best evidence that I've been able to find about the long term benefits of breastfeeding vs formula is that there is a slightly increased risk of stomach aches and earaches in formula fed, but neither were statistically significant. Could just be a correlation.
That's it.
They starved their babies to try prevent a slightly increased risk in earaches and stomach aches - and, I'm pretty convinced, because they were frightened of being seen as 'bad mothers'.
I was incredibly curious about this, and have since unearthed multiple accounts of mothers doing the same.
We know that early years experiences are crucial - I wonder if a baby spending it's very first waking experience screaming for food that never came has any long lasting effects......

Unsurprisingly, the three in my life are all staunch school closure supporters. They've done no research. They've listened to the cultural norm and want to be seen as good people.
I could ask them again, now - 'Are the benefits worth the costs to your child', and I don't think that they'd be able to give any answer other than the party line.

What the actual fuck is that post supposed to be about.

I literally despair.

I'm going to repeat what Turtleshelley posted.

Because it's getting lost in 'transmission denial' nonsense:

mrshoho
Usforthem founders

Liz Cole
Independent marketing consultant

Molly Kingsley
Entrepreneur

Victoria Pratt
Construction Lawyer, Tennis coach

Ros Maidment
Retired paediatrician, amateur singer

Marta Kotlarek
Google Analyst, campaigner

Arabella Hastings
Marketing consultant, football coach

Dawn Fletcher
Teacher

Victoria Slatter
Campaigner

Leila Bybordi
Campaigner, designer, investor

Christine Brett
Health Economist, yoga teacher

Johannah (Jo) Bisset
Businesswoman, usforthem Scotland

Rachel Maile
Marketing Professional, community champion

What a group!
The director of Molly’s company worked at no 10 in family and education and Molly writes regularly for the Telegraph.

Entrepreneur with strong Tory connections is what you meant I guess?

The group also employees Boris’s former PR man, who also advised the hardline Tory CRG group, despite not raising enough in crowdfunding to cover a slither of his salary.

They also afforded an astroturfing campaign with said measly funds.

Disaster capitalists is another name you can use.

Watching this with interest. I have concerns over how this is progressing and what the real agenda here is.

Not convinced about welfare of children by any means.

Eh? Are you saying women who breastfeed are more likely to want schools closed?

@Temptashun

I've known three mothers who thought it was better to let their newborns scream with hunger for weeks rather than 'resort' to the bottle, because they were told 'breast is best, and the social pressure to breastfeed is so huge that despite not making enough milk, they were determined to continue. If I have asked them 'By how much is breast best, and is it worth your baby's distress and weight loss?' they wouldn't have been able to answer the first part, and so would have no idea as to the second.

The best evidence that I've been able to find about the long term benefits of breastfeeding vs formula is that there is a slightly increased risk of stomach aches and earaches in formula fed, but neither were statistically significant. Could just be a correlation.
That's it.
They starved their babies to try prevent a slightly increased risk in earaches and stomach aches - and, I'm pretty convinced, because they were frightened of being seen as 'bad mothers'.
I was incredibly curious about this, and have since unearthed multiple accounts of mothers doing the same.
We know that early years experiences are crucial - I wonder if a baby spending it's very first waking experience screaming for food that never came has any long lasting effects......

Unsurprisingly, the three in my life are all staunch school closure supporters. They've done no research. They've listened to the cultural norm and want to be seen as good people.
I could ask them again, now - 'Are the benefits worth the costs to your child', and I don't think that they'd be able to give any answer other than the party line.

You really think you're so much cleverer than everyone else, don't you?

It's a bit embarrassing tbh.

It's also not a great strategy to win an argument - to dismiss everyone else as not having 'done the research'. It's a weird anti vax type thing to say.

Sorry you feel bad about not being able to/not wanting to breastfeed and are somehow shoehorning all those old feelings of inadequacy into this unrelated debate.

[quote thecatfromjapan]www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851[/quote]
They used antibody testing to try and account for the difficulties of asymptomatic spread in the Nature study:

'Testing of antibody against SARS-CoV-2 virus was positive IgG (+) in 190 of the 300 asymptomatic cases, indicating that 63.3% (95% CI 57.6–68.8%) of asymptomatic positive cases were actually infected'.

The BMJ article also has a very interesting piece of information -

'The only test for live virus is viral culture. PCR and lateral flow tests do not distinguish live virus. The only test for live virus is viral culture. PCR and lateral flow tests do not distinguish live virus. No test of infection or infectiousness is currently available for routine use. As things stand, a person who tests positive with any kind of test may or may not have an active infection with live virus, and may or may not be infectious.'

What have we been using for testing.....?
What have we been sending kids home for?
Yes, that's right - a test result which cannot distinguish between a live infection and a recovered, non infectious prior infection.
Your covid infected kid could have had it weeks ago without anybody noticing, but because they're forced to have a test, they and their contacts have to isolate anyway.

It's quite regular that if you mention this, you get called a right-wing conspiracy theorist....

@thecatfromjapan

I'm going to repeat what Turtleshelley posted.

Because it's getting lost in 'transmission denial' nonsense:

mrshoho
Usforthem founders

Liz Cole
Independent marketing consultant

Molly Kingsley
Entrepreneur

Victoria Pratt
Construction Lawyer, Tennis coach

Ros Maidment
Retired paediatrician, amateur singer

Marta Kotlarek
Google Analyst, campaigner

Arabella Hastings
Marketing consultant, football coach

Dawn Fletcher
Teacher

Victoria Slatter
Campaigner

Leila Bybordi
Campaigner, designer, investor

Christine Brett
Health Economist, yoga teacher

Johannah (Jo) Bisset
Businesswoman, usforthem Scotland

Rachel Maile
Marketing Professional, community champion

What a group!
The director of Molly’s company worked at no 10 in family and education and Molly writes regularly for the Telegraph.

Entrepreneur with strong Tory connections is what you meant I guess?

The group also employees Boris’s former PR man, who also advised the hardline Tory CRG group, despite not raising enough in crowdfunding to cover a slither of his salary.

They also afforded an astroturfing campaign with said measly funds.

I just googled a couple and LinkedIn has same occupation so I think claim earlier about this was false.

They have the standard description of job and skills - definitely want to be employed. Any future employer who googled them will see the FB group, if it really is a bunch of nut jobs and far right extremists they’d be doing themselves a discredit.

It's also not a great strategy to win an argument - to dismiss everyone else as not having 'done the research'. It's a weird anti vax type thing to say.

Sorry you feel bad about not being able to/not wanting to breastfeed and are somehow shoehorning all those old feelings of inadequacy into this unrelated debate.

Oh, I'm anti-vax now, too, am I?
Astroturfing, right wing, conspiracy theorist anti-vaxer.

Also - learn to read. It's not me who couldn't breast feed, and I would never have felt guilty about it anyway, because I know that there's little fucking difference.

@HalfPastThree

So do you want to talk about the mental health of children?

While I agree with everything on your list, I think banning children from going to school at short notice, banning all their activities, and making it against the law to play with their friends, with no end date, might be a biggie

If Us for Them hadn’t campaigned against masks, social distancing, open windows, hand washing, more space etc in schools, the rise in infections during autumn and early winter could have been far slower and kids could still be in some kind of school right now. They created this hell. As many of us predicted when the gov refused to introduce masks and distancing etc.

Open schools SAFELY. That keeps them open longer.us for them opposed this.

@RedToothBrush

Disaster capitalists is another name you can use.

Watching this with interest. I have concerns over how this is progressing and what the real agenda here is.

Not convinced about welfare of children by any means.

At times I’ve felt the gov have been trying to force chaos in education and a miners strike moment with unions (in which the right wing press would vilify the unions).

I’m not sure why but my hunch is they’re still smarting that they couldn’t convert all schools to academies (privatising education by the back door). If they weakened unions now, that would help them to force academies or perhaps another unforeseen agenda later.

Also, Tory backers want kids in school so their minions can work.

The Tories pushing for schools reopening have repeatedly AGAINST the interests of mental health and kids re school meals, sure starts, pupil funding, mental health funding and so on. They have never cared about kids before. They don’t now.

@noblegiraffe

What the actual fuck is that post supposed to be about.

I literally despair.

It's about how, for many people, if you push a narrative hard, and imply that you're a social failure if you don't conform, many parents will literally harm their own babies quite a lot, in order to avoid a very small potential other harm.

In wanting the schools closed, or open but with masks and social distancing, (both of which harm children's development, and don't really do much) you're doing the same thing.

I know you'll never see it.
But I want you to know that I think, although it's being done with the best of intentions - you are making extremely bad, harmful choices for your children.
I'd like you to reconsider.

MarshaBrady I think you have the wrong idea about what we mean by Far Right.

This is why I keep using 'New Right Economic Libertarians'.

They are in the Conservative Party.

They are the ERG and the CRG.

They are lobbyists, PR experts, think-tank members and directors of multi-national companies.

Fair-do, association with that group is going to go against you if you apply to become a SPAD for a Labour MP.

But it certainly won't go against you if you want to work in many marketing companies, PR firms or lobby groups.

I didn't claim all their job titles were false, what I was pointing out was that they will have written those job titles themselves. Anyone who describes themself as eg, an 'amateur singer', is probably getting an income from some other activity....

The same goes for descriptions on Linkedin unless endorsed by several credible others.

Cat The op shouldn’t use the term Far Right if they mean something else. That is the wrong part not my interpretation.

Being a Cons voter won’t deny you a job but extremism might.

Plus I doubt the one I googled who’s a marketing assistant at some company is as connected as you think. Maybe even voted Labour (in a non Corbyn year he didn’t get many)

If that list hadn’t been posted I’d be left with shady, nut job extremists not X who cares about copy and messaging (can’t remember which one)

@Temptashun so when schools were open fully and bubbles were bursting left, right and centre and transmission rates rising scarily, how is that good for children?

Have you got any research on how children are being harmed in countries where masks are being used in schools!

But I want you to know that I think, although it's being done with the best of intentions - you are making extremely bad, harmful choices for your children.
I'd like you to reconsider.

And I’d like not to be banned so I won’t tell you what you can do with that highly offensive comment.

I am not making extremely bad harmful choices for my kids, thanks.

Opening schools with no mitigation measures was stupid and harmful and led to disrupted education for millions and now school closures for most.

Opening schools in a safer and more sustainable fashion would have led to a more consistent education experience and possibly not the sky high infection and death rates we have now that are no good for anyone’s mental health.

They are 'far right' - they are way to the right of One Nation Tories, or even what most people associate with Conservstive values.

They aren't what many people think of as 'Far Right' (a bunch of Hitler-loving thugs, clustered around a Union Jack).

This bunch aren't anything like old-style Conservatives. They pushed Brexit in the full knowledge it would break the Union. The acceptance of this by our present government is baffling to those who don't realise the extent to which this group have driven so much of the Conservative agenda over the last few years.

They are extremely economically libertarian. Nothing, certainly not democracy and its forms, must be allowed to stand between their economic agenda and its actualisation.

And this, above all, is why they latch into and amplify various interest groups and issues.

The point is to fracture democratic consensus and allow the forwarding of an essentially not-popular economic agenda through the chaos.