Good news for teachers; less so for care workers

[WouldBeGood]

Teachers significantly less likely to die from Covid than their peers.

Social care workers significantly higher, along with other low paid but essential occupations.

I'd be interested in seeing September to December and seeing if the same trend happens.

March to July schools were not fully open and had some levels of mitigation in place. In July and August schools were closed.

I'd also be wanting to look at illness, rather than deaths. Most teachers and TAs I know haven't been scared they'll die from covid, but they were concerned they would become ill, need lengthy time off work or even need hospital treatment.

I caught covid. I didn't die, obviously. But I did need hospital treatment. I had it rushed to a and e on one day. I had 7 weeks off work. I'm still not fully better and it's been 3+ months,

@NoonesHero

Isn't it a bit like comparing apples and oranges?

Social care workers (chefs, taxi drivers, factory workers etc) work shifts, including nights, which puts you at more risk of just about everything, diabetes, stroke, heart disease, cancer, so I would think it'd increase the risk of dying or serious complications from catching covid.

Social care workers are less likely to be paid while off sick, and rely on SSP, which might mean they're more likely to go back to work sooner than they should.

They are in general lower earners, which means things like poor diet, poor housing, working a lot of hours and long shifts without adequate rest and travelling on public transport are more likely, which has a knock on effect towards recovery rates.

That's not to say that I think schools are safe, because I don't think they are, but teachers and social care workers are two vastly different groups, they're just not really comparable to me.

Absolutely

This is a convenient statistic to justify not vaccinating teachers at the moment.

@siestalady

Its funny how there are certain corners who like to loudly shout "schools never shut" when people complain about schools being shut; and now faced with these ONS stats demonstrating teachers are not really at more risk than anyone else, those same posters flip that to "well the schools werent even open for most of that time!" Baffling

Not at all.

Schools weren't shut. They were open to KW children. There were limited staff on skate and very limited on site attendance.

Most pupils received some kind of education online or remotely even though the curriculum was officially suspended.

@Foilball

Interesting. I wonder what can be done to help the taxi drivers, chefs, security guards and process plant workers (I assume social care workers will be getting vaccinated soon?).

They should be as they are in one of the top priority groups. In fact - many should have already been done.

@Foilball

Interesting. I wonder what can be done to help the taxi drivers, chefs, security guards and process plant workers (I assume social care workers will be getting vaccinated soon?).

Restaurants have mostly been closed.

Taxi drivers are self employed and can choose to work or take grants. They also can take preventative measures such as masks and windows open.

Plants should have mitigation's but I agree many don't and there should be an investigative sector set up to check H and S.

Security guards will be mixed for working due to the fact closures may mean some are furloughed. But again yes they should have mitigation's in place.

[quote NoonesHero]@WouldBeGood

You can be as upset as you like, it's true for many people on low wages. I'm a care worker, I earn minimum wage. In fact for every care job I've done I've earned minimum wage.

Social care workers do work shifts and shift work does increase many risks.

Social care workers are more likely to rely on Ssp for being off ill rather than full pay from their employers,

Just because it's not the reality for you, doesn't mean it isn't for anyone, no one suggested that care workers are destitute peasants ready to drop dead, rather that teachers and social care workers are two completely different groups and it's not just exposure to being infected that needs to be taken into consideration.

And yes, we are doing personal care with minimal grade ppe, on cv positive people, but you can't pretend that because you earn £10 an hour and have a nice house, that applies across the board because it doesn't, people working in social care are more likely to have lower wages and less job benefits than teachers, that's why comparing the death rates of both groups doesn't work because there's a lot more factors at play.[/quote]
You’ve replied to the wrong person. You meant to direct that to me.

And you can’t imply the opposite!! Just because you’re on minimum wage and don’t have good housing or diet doesn’t mean that you can lump all care workers into a group and say we all have the same life style as you. Likewise I know a windowed single parent who’s a teacher and relies on food banks to feed her 3 children.

The data set doesn’t actually tell us all we need to know about the socioeconomic circumstances of those who died. It’s doing yourself and all other carers a disservice to say they are dying because they are poor rather than campaigning for better PPE. How many ICU doctors catch covid from the people they care for? I’d like to know how that compares to carers who catch it from their clients.

@Christinaismyperson

My apologies to @wouldbegood!

Nightshift brain.

I'm not saying carers are dying because they are poor, I'm saying comparing the two jobs in terms of death rates and infection rates is misleading because there are other factors at play, like socioeconomic factors, as well as PPE issues, as well as practical issues like we can't care for some of our clients over the internet. We have the same amount of residents as we did last year (not the same people, but the same beds filled iyswim)

No, not all care workers are like me, but I doubt many at all earn the same as a teacher (not saying they should, just that they don't).
Teachers don't work shifts.
Teachers are more likely to be in a union, or to have sick pay from their employer.

I'm not doing anyone a disservice by pointing that out, except maybe people who insist that no one could possibly be at as much risk, or as hard done by than teachers are at the moment. Fwiw I do think teachers have had a raw deal, but I think comparing them to social care workers is misleading. The jobs, environment, pay, benefits and public perception of them are completely different.

If you visit the ONS website then you can read all the data and the breakdowns and find the answers to list if the questions on this thread.

But

In between the hand wringing over what it does or does not prove for teachers - how about sparing a minute to think of the workers who have died.

Lots of people have died FFS.

I'm a SEN TA and just today we've learnt that we are getting the vaccine. Our school nurse is going to be booking our appointments for us.

@NoonesHero

I do see what you’re saying, but I can quickly see this becoming a “well carers are low paid and more likely to be BAME so we don’t need to look any further into working conditions” that’s what will continue to kill carers. When my manager caught COVID and ended up in ICU it wasn’t because she’s low paid (trust me, quite the opposite!) it was because she had to work the floor during staff shortages and caught it from a sick resident. Has she been properly protected with decent PPE she would have at the very least been exposed to a lower viral load and possibly not have even caught it.

But I think the argument in this case needs to be the likelihood of catching covid at work increases your likelihood of dying from covid.

Teachers (god I’m fed up of the teachers argument) may be in contact with lots of kids, but not anything like the hours we would spend washing, applying creams to, dressing, medicating and feeding a single person who actually has covid. Possibly times that by 10+ times a shift.

It's TAs in my school that catch Covid, most are 40 plus in age groups.

@GintyMcGinty

If you visit the ONS website then you can read all the data and the breakdowns and find the answers to list if the questions on this thread.

But

In between the hand wringing over what it does or does not prove for teachers - how about sparing a minute to think of the workers who have died.

Lots of people have died FFS.

It's very macabre. Every one of those numbers was a person.

Must be incredibly stressful working in public health at the moment. Working out who to vaccinate first, and who has to wait.

@Christinaismyperson

It wasn't intended to sound like care workers are poor that's why they're dying, the lower wage aspect, and the effects that has on standard of living, and being reliant on SSP is as valid as the point I also made about shift working, about your point about lack of PPE, about how we are physically close to people all day (or night) not just in the same room but dealing with bodily fluid, touching people to apply creams and wash etc.

It's all part of the same thing really, they're reasons why the two jobs aren't comparable in terms of infection rates and people dying because they are so vastly different for all those reasons.

I agree it's not good enough to say oh well, care workers are poor, so that's why they're dying, but imo it's a contributing factor as are the health risks already associated with shift working, lack of employer support, lack of support from society and lack of the right protection for staff and residents.

Teachers have a voice, a very loud one at the moment. Schools are closed, yet nothing has changed for care workers, or their residents. It's hardly surprising that care workers are more at risk, yet here we have people dismissing it (not you) and saying the numbers are skewed because it doesn't favour teachers.
That's really frustrating.

Definitely hoping this is true, although I guess there’s lots of young teachers! I would like to imagine that my job gives me some kind of extra luck against covid...

Obviously only the part about teachers being less likely to die... that can only be good news.

I do think what’s absolutely shocking is how the other jobs (social care etc) which afaik are less well paid, are at a higher risk of death. Absolutely awful.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

Sadly we are not offered it :(
Despite daily personal care and health tasks and latest figures showing we catch it at 2-6x the national average rate

[quote CallmeAngelina]@siestalady, Is that really the extent of your reasoning powers
You can't see that schools being only partially open to a limited number of students, as well as being completely closed for the holiday periods within that timeframe (around 10 weeks) might make these statistics fairly meaningless?[/quote]
As a matter of accuracy, there were hardly any deaths in any profession over the summer holiday period, so it would make no difference at all to the comparison if that period was excluded. Sure, teachers weren't at risk because schools were closed. But noone (except a handful of frail elderly) was at risk, either, because case numbers were through the floor.

The good news is all carers will soon be vaccinated so should be much safer.

You have to query why, in some areas as shown on this thread, some
LAs are starting to vaccinate their SEN teachers.

KW children are more likely to be exposed to covid - which may balance out the period where schools we’re not open to all?