Good news for teachers; less so for care workers

[WouldBeGood]

Teachers significantly less likely to die from Covid than their peers.

Social care workers significantly higher, along with other low paid but essential occupations.

*their

I suspect they can't break deaths by occupation down further into more categories because the numbers are too small to be statistically significant and may be identifying.

As regards including all months for teachers. Of course they have. Work is not the only place you can catch Covid. It would be inaccurate to exclude those months. I would be interested in trends over time, but the numbers are thankfully low so error margins are likely to be high.

If you want a coarse over estimate, you could assume no teacher deaths occurred in that 3 month window and so add an extra third to the total. Even then teachers still do ok compared to average. Which is a positive.

@BunsyGirl

For those mentioning about schools being closed, what about the huge number of people they were working from home last year (and still are). Are there figures to be discounted too?

Probably not. Because that doesn't suit the narrative.

Of course teachers are concerned. I would be interested to know if schools being closed had an affect on the rates. I would also be interested in the infection rates.

It's really important to look at the evidence and use it to inform an argument. Not the other way round.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I'd like to know the rates among SEN teachers compared to the others

I read something last week which says it's higher

It is my understanding that SEN teachers/TAs are now being offered the vaccine.

I had read this about SEN teachers too. High risk bumps you up the vaccine queue. While being high risk is obviously not a good thing at least it's being responded too.

Right wing paper massages figures. Some are dim enough to take them at face value.

'twas ever thus.

@napody

In many areas, social care workers are only just being vaccinated. Outbreaks in day services, residential care homes, nursing homes and supported living accommodation often come from the staff (obviously it’s not their fault). It’s absolutely outrageous the lack of public support this topic gets. They’re more likely to be BAME too.

[quote Haenow]@napody

In many areas, social care workers are only just being vaccinated. Outbreaks in day services, residential care homes, nursing homes and supported living accommodation often come from the staff (obviously it’s not their fault). It’s absolutely outrageous the lack of public support this topic gets. They’re more likely to be BAME too.[/quote]
It is awful that they have been in this situation so long. It's an absolutely gruelling job too. I am very glad they are top of the list for vaccinations - all the ones I know in different areas have had theirs, so it can't be more than another couple of weeks until they are all done.

The Governments decision to space them out is another matter.

@BunsyGirl

For those mentioning about schools being closed, what about the huge number of people they were working from home last year (and still are). Are there figures to be discounted too?

If you have a specific job in mind (where they are usually in one small room with 30 other people and no masks or social distancing, but have been working from home instead for the last year) then it could be looked at, couldn't it? Otherwise it just sounds like whataboutery.

Isn't it a bit like comparing apples and oranges?

Social care workers (chefs, taxi drivers, factory workers etc) work shifts, including nights, which puts you at more risk of just about everything, diabetes, stroke, heart disease, cancer, so I would think it'd increase the risk of dying or serious complications from catching covid.

Social care workers are less likely to be paid while off sick, and rely on SSP, which might mean they're more likely to go back to work sooner than they should.

They are in general lower earners, which means things like poor diet, poor housing, working a lot of hours and long shifts without adequate rest and travelling on public transport are more likely, which has a knock on effect towards recovery rates.

That's not to say that I think schools are safe, because I don't think they are, but teachers and social care workers are two vastly different groups, they're just not really comparable to me.

I think the figures amongst social care workers are a disgrace and reflect the horrendous conditions early in the pandemic when they were expected to continue in their jobs with zero ppe, whilst hospitals discharged hundreds of positive patients into the homes and COVID ran riot. It’s a hard enough job to do for minimum wage at the best of times.

@Foilball

Interesting. I wonder what can be done to help the taxi drivers, chefs, security guards and process plant workers (I assume social care workers will be getting vaccinated soon?).

No one is interested because they aren't teachers apparently.

Ok so it's been a long long time since I did stats - but how can this be true?
So secondary female teachers had a death rate of 21 per 100,000 - seen as not statistically above average, social care workers had a rate of 25 - seen as statistically significant, yet other professional rate is 12?!

Oops screenshot here

And absolutely shocking rates for care staff, factory workers and others. Their industries should have implemented better working mitigations

@napody No it isn’t whataboutery. If people are questioning the fact that the data doesn’t show teachers being at a higher risk than the general population and suggesting that the reason for this is schools being closed for a period of time, then of course the fact that huge numbers of people were working from home is relevant. But, as a previous poster pointed out, it doesn’t suit their narrative. That’s why those people want to ignore the fact that many people in other professions were WFH for most of the year.

I'm a care Assistant and this doesn't surprise me. We have to be up and close to a resident having covid and the ppe we are supplied is ridiculous.

Maybe masks don't have as much effect as thought? Maybe it is more to do with ventilation? I suppose if you've got a poorly resident, you are less likely to have an open window permanently?

You can look at deaths by date, though not by occupation, but you could extrapulate some data:

Between Sept and Dec:
Total Deaths (Age 20-90+) - 60571
Deaths of working age (Age 20-64) - 5569

I don't know how many educators there are in the workforce, but all things being equal, I don't think many teachers have died.... sorry.

@NoonesHero

Isn't it a bit like comparing apples and oranges?

Social care workers (chefs, taxi drivers, factory workers etc) work shifts, including nights, which puts you at more risk of just about everything, diabetes, stroke, heart disease, cancer, so I would think it'd increase the risk of dying or serious complications from catching covid.

Social care workers are less likely to be paid while off sick, and rely on SSP, which might mean they're more likely to go back to work sooner than they should.

They are in general lower earners, which means things like poor diet, poor housing, working a lot of hours and long shifts without adequate rest and travelling on public transport are more likely, which has a knock on effect towards recovery rates.

That's not to say that I think schools are safe, because I don't think they are, but teachers and social care workers are two vastly different groups, they're just not really comparable to me.

As a care worker I’m actually quite upset at hearing this over and over again.

Myself and all of my 40 colleagues have good housing, good diets and healthy life styles. We earn £10ph at a minimum. We are not destitute peasants who are waiting to drop dead.

We are at more risk because we perform personal care for covid positive people without the same protection you see the staff on covid wards wearing on tv. We have a paper mask, an apron, gloves and maybe glasses.

@EnemyOfEducationNo1

Maybe masks don't have as much effect as thought? Maybe it is more to do with ventilation? I suppose if you've got a poorly resident, you are less likely to have an open window permanently?

We have to be close, we can't social distance, we're dealing with bodily fluids regularly, dementia residents wander, some become distressed if they are prevented from doing so, many places are laid out to facilitate that, even with 1:1 care physical restraint would be the only way to prevent wandering in some cases, yes ventilation is also an issue, we open Windows, the more ambulatory residents go around closing them again because it's cold! Masks/visors are not suitable for many residents because of other illnesses. We need other hcps coming in to give treatment, we have paramedics and undertakers in, all of which visit other settings and also obviously live their own lives. I know there's a far greater take up on key workers places in schools this time, but online it's actually an option for teaching, It's not for care. We can't reduce our risk by adapting how we deliver care, or turning services online.

And then there's the socioeconomic factors too.

Other studies find secondary school teachers have a higher death rate than age matched peers.

You can make whatever point you like with statistics.
One study proves something, another the opposite.
That's where the well known phrase about statistics comes from.

Yes let's include a period of time where school's were shut for all but key workers and vulnerable or small bubbles or in the holidays.
Breaking it down September to December would give a clearer picture..

@WouldBeGood

You can be as upset as you like, it's true for many people on low wages. I'm a care worker, I earn minimum wage. In fact for every care job I've done I've earned minimum wage.

Social care workers do work shifts and shift work does increase many risks.

Social care workers are more likely to rely on Ssp for being off ill rather than full pay from their employers,

Just because it's not the reality for you, doesn't mean it isn't for anyone, no one suggested that care workers are destitute peasants ready to drop dead, rather that teachers and social care workers are two completely different groups and it's not just exposure to being infected that needs to be taken into consideration.

And yes, we are doing personal care with minimal grade ppe, on cv positive people, but you can't pretend that because you earn £10 an hour and have a nice house, that applies across the board because it doesn't, people working in social care are more likely to have lower wages and less job benefits than teachers, that's why comparing the death rates of both groups doesn't work because there's a lot more factors at play.

*It is my understanding that SEN teachers/TAs are now being offered the vaccine.
They are getting the no show ones. It was argued by a lot of doctors as well as education that nature of work as as much health and social care as education. And previously (eg swine flu) they were vaccinated under this category.

Well in my county anyway!*

I'm an sen teacher. No sign of any vaccines coming our way.

3 members of staff and a child tested positive in the first week and we have relatively low rates.