Schools - what are you expecting?

[DBML]

I’m a teacher and throughout November and December our school was hit badly by Covid. We had all year groups off, at least 50 confirmed cases in pupils. Tens of staff off confirmed. One member of staff passed Covid on to a parent who then passed away. One learner passed Covid to her mother who passed away. We had 2 children seriously ill in hospital, luckily now recovered. Horrendous is not a word I use lightly, but it became frightening and eventually unsustainable.

Because some groups were in and others out, remote learning was patchy and difficult to manage. I caught Covid after having a year 7 in my class who tested positive and I was ill for about 7 - 10 days, so quite mild luckily. But I couldn’t breath easily and had panic attacks. Was unable to sleep laying down and was convinced that I had no air. It was awful.

‘Us for them’ is campaigning for us to go back to this again. No safety measures in place...just a full reopening and having been there, I cannot understand why?

I know many posters here want school’s ‘reopened’ again too and as quickly as possible. I was wondering whether rather than just say ‘schools must open’ someone could explain.

I get that home learning is not ideal; can be inconsistent and that working from home is challenging when children are there. I get that parents are worried about their children’s and their own mental health...I get it, because I am trying to work full time and am a parent too. But, having seen how bad schools can get, I also accept that tolerating this situation until cases are right down is necessary.

I don’t want to die. I don’t want my husband to die. I don’t want my son to get seriously sick. I don’t want my pupils to get sick or to lose parents. I don’t want to return to school without anything there to keep us safe. We were not safe.

I was wondering what those who want schools to just open are expecting? Are you expecting children not to catch it? Not to pass it about? Are you willing for some teachers, parents and pupils to die because it will only be a very small percentage and a price worth paying? Are you happy to put up with the endless isolations and then reduced quality of online learning?

And if you just want ‘normality’ do you realise that’s just not possible?

Genuinely interested in the reasoning and not just the statement ‘schools need to open’.

Education in this country has been woefully underfunded for at least the past decade.

The current funding formula relies on as many bodies crammed into small unsuitable spaces as possible.

Schools are cramped and overcrowded. Class sizes are larger than optimal. Disruptive behaviour hampers learning and progress as students aren't getting the support they need from overstretched teachers.

It's not been ideal for years. Covid has merely highlighted the problems in schools. Return to the classroom would have been a whole lot easier if corners hadn't been cut for years.

My expectation is that before anyone sets foot in the classroom - its as safe as it can possibly be, that includes, vaccination of teachers, and staff, that includes face masks, heating, ventilation, windows open, air purifying systems , regular mask breaks to give everyone a rest from wearing them, increased hygiene and measures against dc who mess around with masks or don't wear them properly etc, uniform relaxations to let dc wear warm clothes, some blended learning if classes are too cramped and a swift move to on line learning when cases go up, PCR tests for all before they step foot on school property, regular testing after that every Monday before coming to school and on top of all that - a background of low community transmission.

Education in this country has been woefully underfunded for at least the past decade.

^^ Oh I see - so schools were beautifully funded after a decade of tony blair?

Naively possibly optimistically, I'm assuming this 2 weeks notice Gav promised means some things will actually change, after all we don't need 2 weeks notice to prepare to go back to how it was before that could literally be done overnight or a couple days at least

@sundowners

OP- so you’ve already had it? And recovered. All this talk of you “not wanting to die” / your husband die, pupils die etc... please can we keep this accurate and in perspective. The chances of anyone healthy and young dying of Covid is tiny.

I want teachers to get the vaccine and primary and secondary exam years to reopen in small bubbles, 1 day a week at first after half term, then 2 days a week.

I don’t think the risk to children is all that small, tbh. We have had several children left disabled locally, and one death from MISC. but a bigger risk than that, I have two students who know, and will carry the knowledge for the rest of their life, that they took home the disease that killed their mothers

And having had Covid once gives you no protection over getting it again, and getting it worse

@Pleasedontputthatthere

Callme - in Spain all pupils and teachers wear masks. If there is a single case in the classroom that that child would SI but the bubble wouldn't burst. If there is more than on case in a class then that is classed as a 'spread' and would burst the bubble.

In my school all staff and students wore masks from the October half term onwards. I think it helped slow down the spread through the school, but it certainly didn’t stop it. By the last week of school in December, more than half our classes were at home positive or self isolating

@Justthebeerlighttoguide I said at least. I said nothing about them being well funded before.

But the changes to funding formulas during recent years haven't improved matters at all.

@Frodont

Our boarding school all had covid last January February, possibly brought in by Chinese students who all tested positive for antibodies when they flew back in March. Since then we've had zero cases and presumably high levels of herd immunity. So personally I'd like boarding schools and residential schools to go back asap.

Nobody that got Covid last January or February is likely to have any immunity now

@StamfordFig

The certainty some people have about who gave who Covid is laughable - especially when it comes to school settings.

People can pick up Covid anywhere. You cannot ever be certain how or where you or anyone else got it.

You can be certain you got it from school if you live alone And don’t go anywhere at all except school That was how I and many of my colleagues got it

@lljkk

The ONS just came out with data that only about 150 teachers have died with covid to late December (29 secondary male teachers, 23 secondary female). So whoever had 3 die from one school was exceptionally high/unlucky.

I was wondering what those who want schools to just open are expecting?

Nothing -- I dare not hope (expect) anything.
I assume we will have to continue to chase hard to keep little DS engaged and I am pretty sure we will mostly succeed.

I expect big DS to drop out of college but he was maybe going to anyway.

The harms done to their future prospects are being given more importance since September, but still far below the priority of people who don't want panic attacks from their job. What I want is utterly unimportant to decision makers and people with power or influence.

But that’s 150 in the 12 weeks or so that staff will have been in schools. There is a school near here that has lost 2 members of staff ( as in they have died). I have a close friend and colleague who has been in hospital since before Christmas. The union figures are that school staff are 3x more likely to die than the general population, when school are open

Latest stats from ONS show teachers are not at high risk compared to other professions. Other jobs are far worse.

My children's mental health and education are at serious risk. I'm at my wits end.

Schools need to go back as safely as possible and as quickly as possible.

@Rowenasemolina no that's not true as unions twisted it. Those figures are putting risk to teachers against everyone. Not against the same age range that are working ooh.

@Ilovegreentomatoes

May not be a popular opinion but I would rather September as a return date for secondary at least. By then most of the population over 18 should of been vaccinated and hopefully life should be back to more normal. What I don't want is my dd to go back like before then sent home every other week to isolate or her year group sent home because not enough teaching staff. The inconsistency was much worse than home learning.

Many countries have already given sept 21 as the earliest possible reopening. Where my nephews live, schools did not reopen in September. Instead, students were called in in groups of 8, trained in the platforms used for online learning, and told not to expect to return to the premises for a year. The UK has opened schools earlier than many places. With far fewer controls, and have kept them open when other countries would have closed them

Yeah, says it all - only 150 teachers have died, only 150 lives and families ripped apart with a family member lost to them forever!

Is this the kind of society we are when people ( not on this thread but others and Us for them ) literally say things like well 500 bus divers are dead and only - 150 teachers so whats the problem - get on with it - Kids needs to be in school to get on with THERE learnin'"

Shouldn't we all be calling for all jobs to be made as safe as possible? I think cashiers in SM need a screen all around them, can't aldi, lidl, waitrose - asda afford that????

Everyone everywhere should be calling for safer conditions! NOt comparing death rates and saying there are worse rates so get on with it - Kids need there learnin.

but a bigger risk than that, I have two students who know, and will carry the knowledge for the rest of their life, that they took home the disease that killed their mothers
This is what scares my DD most of all. She is terrified of passing it onto someone vulnerable and being responsible for their death or severe illness. However small that risk is.
I find it really hard to read posters saying 'only 150' teachers have died as if that's an acceptable number. It could have been fewer if disease transmission in schools had been taken more seriously.

The UK has opened schools earlier than many places. With far fewer controls, and have kept them open when other countries would have closed them

And do we have good success rates with covid? No! We have the worse death rates in the whole wide world.

OP you are assuming that all schools were ravaged with covid like it sounds like your school was. The school my children went to only had one bubble burst and that wasn’t for a positive case, that was for a case where the result was undetermined or whatever the correct terminology is. So for my family the risk certainly felt low and because of that I am feeling pretty resentful my children are now getting a substandard education and thus I would like school to open to my children as soon as possible.

But we go to a rural primary school that hasn't had a single case. It sounds as if there needs to be a middle ground.

[quote unchienandalusia]@Rowenasemolina no that's not true as unions twisted it. Those figures are putting risk to teachers against everyone. Not against the same age range that are working ooh. [/quote]
I think people who have not experienced Covid rip through their schools have little idea what it is actually like. We have students who will never recover. One has had part of a lung removed, and remaining lung tissue is badly damaged. Several have lost parents and grandparents. Several have become full time carers, including One girl who has withdrawn her university application to care for her now-disabled mother. Seeing children wilt in front of your eyes is frightening Fir everyone, especially class mates. Said child is rushed out of the room, the area where they were sitting us disinfected, and everyone waits for a test result. The call comes that they are positive, and the class is sent home ( those that cane in) the next news is they are in hospital, or someone from their household is in hospital, or the person they were sitting closest to is ill, or on oxygen, or has passed it on to a relative...People don’t realise the detestation. We have children who have not recovered from catching Covid in the first wave yet. Some may still improve, it’s hard to know. Lung damage, sepsis, amputations if fingers and toes, eye damage, deafness, all these things have happened to children in my LA, some yo children in my school, and some to children in my class. And bereavements. And staff who are long term sick, disabled, bereaved etc. Thankfully no deaths among staff in my school, but I have a close friend teacher who has been in hospital since before Christmas. She is a young mum, with two children in infant school. Not obese or anything. I have another close friend colleague who has not recovered from catching it in the first wave. She no longer has functioning bone marrow and is being taken in to hospital for regular blood transfusions. I doubt she will work again very few teachers have retired this year. I should have gone, but have delayed to see out the pandemic. With normal retirement rates On top of everything else, schools are likely to have been too short staffed to have opened anyway.

@justanotherneighinparadise

OP you are assuming that all schools were ravaged with covid like it sounds like your school was. The school my children went to only had one bubble burst and that wasn’t for a positive case, that was for a case where the result was undetermined or whatever the correct terminology is. So for my family the risk certainly felt low and because of that I am feeling pretty resentful my children are now getting a substandard education and thus I would like school to open to my children as soon as possible.

That’s just pure luck, and a matter of time. You should be hugely grateful that schools closed before this happened to you

Personally I don't want my child anywhere near a school until case numbers are way down, and until me and OH (both CV) have had at least the first vaccine shot and a 3 week period to build immunity. So I'm hoping for after Easter holidays.

Apologies for lack of paragraphs and punctuation on my phone

@justanotherneighinparadise

OP you are assuming that all schools were ravaged with covid like it sounds like your school was. The school my children went to only had one bubble burst and that wasn’t for a positive case, that was for a case where the result was undetermined or whatever the correct terminology is. So for my family the risk certainly felt low and because of that I am feeling pretty resentful my children are now getting a substandard education and thus I would like school to open to my children as soon as possible.

You’re lucky if it didn’t happen at your school. At the school I teach at, and at my DC school many bubbles had to close. Generally schools reflect the cases in their local area. Whilst we didn’t have spread outside of a bubble because of our strict and effective hygiene controls it certainly spread with in bubbles because social distancing is not possible

@justanotherneighinparadise

Honestly, I can’t describe how bad it was and I’m so glad that not everyone had to experience what we did before Christmas.

The worst thing was that we were doing great! We’d been inspected and commended for our H&S procedures and we’re held up as a shining example for other schools. We hadn’t had a single case and we’re feeling quite smug when other local schools were closing year groups left, right and centre.

Then suddenly we had our first case, quickly followed by others...all originating from the same family with children in different year groups. Not their fault, they didn’t know at first and it came from their parents who brought it from a factory outbreak. They all isolated after a positive test, but it was too late. Pupils got sick, followed by staff.

The year groups dropped like flies over a period of just a few weeks. There was a fair bit of panic and confusion about the online learning and we just couldn’t believe things got so bad so quickly.

I didn’t hear about the deaths and hospitalisations until much later, some only at the start of January and whilst I didn’t have panic attacks in school like someone upthread suggested, I did when I couldn’t breathe with Covid. My oxygen levels were fine, but I’d have sworn they weren’t. I was wheezing and gasping and on many occasions thought I’d need to go to hospital. It’s very, very scary.

I’m responsible for the H&W in my classroom. I’m responsible for following the risk assessment and I’m accountable if I don’t. But I can’t properly follow the RA because it’s impossible.

Honestly, I can’t go back as we did in September. I will go back if things are made safer and I will be thrilled when that time comes, because I miss my students. But I can’t do that again - I’d have to go off sick of something, because the responsibility and accountability alone terrifies me.

@Changeismyname
I am secondary