Schools - what are you expecting?

[DBML]

I’m a teacher and throughout November and December our school was hit badly by Covid. We had all year groups off, at least 50 confirmed cases in pupils. Tens of staff off confirmed. One member of staff passed Covid on to a parent who then passed away. One learner passed Covid to her mother who passed away. We had 2 children seriously ill in hospital, luckily now recovered. Horrendous is not a word I use lightly, but it became frightening and eventually unsustainable.

Because some groups were in and others out, remote learning was patchy and difficult to manage. I caught Covid after having a year 7 in my class who tested positive and I was ill for about 7 - 10 days, so quite mild luckily. But I couldn’t breath easily and had panic attacks. Was unable to sleep laying down and was convinced that I had no air. It was awful.

‘Us for them’ is campaigning for us to go back to this again. No safety measures in place...just a full reopening and having been there, I cannot understand why?

I know many posters here want school’s ‘reopened’ again too and as quickly as possible. I was wondering whether rather than just say ‘schools must open’ someone could explain.

I get that home learning is not ideal; can be inconsistent and that working from home is challenging when children are there. I get that parents are worried about their children’s and their own mental health...I get it, because I am trying to work full time and am a parent too. But, having seen how bad schools can get, I also accept that tolerating this situation until cases are right down is necessary.

I don’t want to die. I don’t want my husband to die. I don’t want my son to get seriously sick. I don’t want my pupils to get sick or to lose parents. I don’t want to return to school without anything there to keep us safe. We were not safe.

I was wondering what those who want schools to just open are expecting? Are you expecting children not to catch it? Not to pass it about? Are you willing for some teachers, parents and pupils to die because it will only be a very small percentage and a price worth paying? Are you happy to put up with the endless isolations and then reduced quality of online learning?

And if you just want ‘normality’ do you realise that’s just not possible?

Genuinely interested in the reasoning and not just the statement ‘schools need to open’.

Outside learning?
What are you picturing that to look like in practice?

The biggest worry for me is that if schools reopen fully, the virus has more chance to mutate and we are more likely to get a strain which evades the vaccine and puts us back to square one.

I am desperate for my primary age children to return and home school is ruining my career and mental health. But I can’t put that ahead of the danger of the virus running through schools and increasing the chances of a vaccine-resistant variant. I feel the same about stopping international travel - the risk of mutant strains could see us at what could effectively be the start of a new pandemic.

I am still horrified at the damaging campaigning carried out over the summer for schools to open with no safety measures. It’s unbelievable.

Ideally I would see all children in on rotas in very small groups wearing masks one or two days a week but logistically can’t see how that could work alongside the key worker and vulnerable places which need to be full time. And in order for it to help working parents, siblings in primary at least would need to have the same rota which would be a nightmare to organise.

I’d also be in favour of repeating the school year which is another massive logistical challenge and I don’t know how it would work in practice.

School reopening seems impossible but it also seems impossible for parents and children to sustain what we are currently attempting to do so I truly don’t know what the solution could be. But it’s definitely not to steamroller ahead and reopen schools fully and it’s definitely not to steamroller ahead and insist that the same progress is made by children in such varying and stressful circumstances - our school does seem to be expecting parents to be able to fully replicate the school day. The resources and recorded lessons are superb but how on Earth I can deliver it to two children in different year groups while trying to do my own job is just incomprehensible.

Whatever happens is going to need huge adjustments and for things to happen which we have previously thought impossible or unmanageable. And it’s going to require massive investment into schools from the government which I doubt they are prepared to do. We will all pay the price with the fallout.

I expect DD to be off til easter. I'm not unhappy about that at all.

Thank you everyone who has really explained what they’d like to see and if some of your suggestions were in fact the case, I would indeed feel more confident about going into school.

• Rotas
• Mask wearing from 6 all of the time
• Money put into reducing class sizes
• Staff vaccinations

Do we think the government will put this in place though? And what if it’s just a case of ‘usual business’ and no additional safety measures?

I do look forward (believe it or not) to returning to school. To being out of my house; seeing my colleagues; seeing my learners and not having to do these online lessons which are tedious. I hoped in January that we’d lock down to make the changes needed...but I just haven’t seen it...and that worries me.

My children’s school has a lot of outdoor areas. Reception has a covered outdoor class anyway with its own playground and different learning areas. There’s also a large covered area which is regularly used as an outdoor classroom. PE is already outside. Last summer much of the teaching was done outside either with the tables outside or on picnic blankets and the children loved it.

The ONS just came out with data that only about 150 teachers have died with covid to late December (29 secondary male teachers, 23 secondary female). So whoever had 3 die from one school was exceptionally high/unlucky.

I was wondering what those who want schools to just open are expecting?

Nothing -- I dare not hope (expect) anything.
I assume we will have to continue to chase hard to keep little DS engaged and I am pretty sure we will mostly succeed.

I expect big DS to drop out of college but he was maybe going to anyway.

The harms done to their future prospects are being given more importance since September, but still far below the priority of people who don't want panic attacks from their job. What I want is utterly unimportant to decision makers and people with power or influence.

I would like a rota so that they are only at half capacity

Whilst perfectly logical, am genuinely interested if schools would be able to implement that though if keyworker children need to be in all of the time. Some schools are over 50% occupied just with keyworker children and even if not, presumably they would need to be in separate rooms/bubbles from those coming in on rota otherwise you have mixing of bubbles so not sure how this could be staffed and whether there are sufficient learning spaces to implement this?

Do we think the government will put this in place though? And what if it’s just a case of ‘usual business’ and no additional safety measures?

The government (or should I say secondary school) seems to be putting a lot of energy into getting regular lateral flow testing* (once a week?) set up and I imagine they will point at that as making schools safer, even if the tests are proven to only be about 50% reliable at picking up positive Covid cases.

[* at least I think they are. The news around this seems to have gone quiet. I know they've abandoned LTF in place of self isolating for direct contacts - thankfully!]

May not be a popular opinion but I would rather September as a return date for secondary at least.
By then most of the population over 18 should of been vaccinated and hopefully life should be back to more normal.
What I don't want is my dd to go back like before then sent home every other week to isolate or her year group sent home because not enough teaching staff.
The inconsistency was much worse than home learning.

And I don't think anyone should be made to work in unsafe conditions be it bus drivers, factory workers etc.

I suppose one thing I would like is to school to open when it's feasible and not necessarily dictated by term dates. If its not OK to open after feb half term then fine but it shouldn't automatically be put back to after easter, if cases are low enough and other measures can be put in place mid term then so be it get them back in even if it is 1 or 2 weeks before they break up again

@MumsGoneToIceland

I would like a rota so that they are only at half capacity

Whilst perfectly logical, am genuinely interested if schools would be able to implement that though if keyworker children need to be in all of the time. Some schools are over 50% occupied just with keyworker children and even if not, presumably they would need to be in separate rooms/bubbles from those coming in on rota otherwise you have mixing of bubbles so not sure how this could be staffed and whether there are sufficient learning spaces to implement this?

I agree it would be difficult but maybe keyworker parents could be given the choice of their class being added to the rota (some keyworkers may be happy with their children rejoining their normal class for half days) or staying in the keyworker group. The keyworker group could be in the hall led by a HLTA maybe? I don’t work in a school but as a parent these are the things that would make me feel safer sending my children back. When certain classes went back last May a lot of keyworker parents wanted their child back in their normal class. They were in a day less but still wanted that. It’ll sort out the keyworkers absolutely need their child in school as both parents keyworkers from the keyworkers wfh and it’s a bit difficult with the kids home.

I'm on the fence. Personally I would rather do school at home with my dc than reopen the schools as they were before. However one of the parents at my dc's school committed suicide last summer and she was struggling massively with lockdown.

I think we should have schools open full time for those who need it, part time for everyone else who wants to send their children to school and proper support for parents/carers.

May not be a popular opinion but I would rather September as a return date for secondary at least.

If it's September, that will be another cohort of exam year students that have missed 2 terms (at least) of school and are going to struggle to get meaningful GCSE/A Level/BTEC etc. results. And, don't forget, the cohort taking A Levels and Level 3 BTECs in 2022 are the ones that have already been subjected to unmoderated messing about for their GCSE/Level 2 results. They absolutely have to be prioritised for some sort of phased return back to school that is earlier than September.

I think primary should be on a rota for all kids including key workers- and I say this as a two key worker family . It would mean key workers employers having to be flexible but there was a stat the other day on another thread that said only 8% of the workforce is primary ages parents so employers should be able to be flexible with this if school rotas were set up.
Possibly support across the age ranges. I am very impressed with the remote learning for my secondary aged child however surely subjects like pe and practical subjects that can't be done virtually (and I know in many schools drama isn't being done in key stage three for example) those teachers will have more capacity and could help with some of the primary or with transition activities for year 6

@MintyMabel

I expect DD to be off til easter. I'm not unhappy about that at all.

Same here really. I'm glad school was open from September and it was good to have the social contact, but it was extremely stressful and felt increasingly unsafe. Home schooling this time round is being delivered pretty well by the school. I don't think that DD is getting an interior education and is not missing the messing around and disruption from other pupils. We're fortunate to have sufficient space and resources for that to work for her and us too. I think it's more likely to be Easter that schools are able to open. Rates are still way too high and I think the risks of the new variant harming the vaccination programme aren't worth taking.

I was wondering what those who want schools to just open are expecting? Are you expecting children not to catch it? Not to pass it about? Are you willing for some teachers, parents and pupils to die because it will only be a very small percentage and a price worth paying? Are you happy to put up with the endless isolations and then reduced quality of online learning?

Young people are at far more risk of mental health issues and suicide than this virus. Most teachers are not in the vulnerable age bracket.

I think the risks arise from kids taking the virus home and passing it on. If we're not in a form of lockdown or higher tier it then spreads easily to others.
I do worry about the longer term impacts on the mental health of children in being isolated but we have to allow a space for vaccinations to roll out to try and minimise the risks to society at large.

When my children were babies I used car seats.
When my children were toddlers I used stair gates and socket covers.
When my children ride bikes I use helmets.
When my children go surfing they use life jackets.

None of that is convenient for me. But my children's safety, even when the risks are minimal, is paramount.

I won't be sending them back to school until it is safe and the risks of covid managed with a much higher level of vaccination.

Some days (today) they've learnt nothing at all.
Some days I get angry with them and vice versa.
We just do our best to stay home and safe and are so thankful we have that choice.

I would like schools to remain open to keyworker children, children with SEN and children identified by the school as vulnerable... but closed to the majority of children, until more is known about the new variants and the rate of infections, hospitalisation and deaths have fallen dramatically.

I'd like more to be put on place to support children's mental health, that would continue into the future.

I'd like trials to start for a suitable vaccine for children.

@3littlewords

I suppose one thing I would like is to school to open when it's feasible and not necessarily dictated by term dates. If its not OK to open after feb half term then fine but it shouldn't automatically be put back to after easter, if cases are low enough and other measures can be put in place mid term then so be it get them back in even if it is 1 or 2 weeks before they break up again

I do agree with this. Fair point. I think staff should be provided with some notice though to allow for re-planning. Even just a few days notice is better than none.

@HazeyJaneII

I would love to see a vaccine for children as well.

Devil? How old is your child?

I have a primary and secondary child, my secondary child is being taught as per curriculum, so from just before 9 until the end of the school day.

Primary dd gets about just over an hours work set, but on oak academy.
She certainly can't race through it and needs support! I have to sit with her to do it.
But my older dc would have been able to do it on her own and very quickly.

In which case she would have then spent her time reading, doing her own thing or browsing around her subject earth quakes.

Anyway op it's an awful situation, teachers have been treated like lumps of flesh expected to just get in the classroom as a child care body.
Not as human beings with fears, families, their own health worries, vulnerable partners and so on.

Us for them disgusts me, they don't want any safety measures implemented, they don't want dc to sd or wear masks.
I hope this awful group are now pushed firmly to the side lines now we all know how cruel and bizarre they are.

Schools need to be safe for everyone, our children need to feel safe, children do not exist in a vacuum they also feel scared going into classrooms with no health measures.

That also affects their '' mental health '', but no one cares about that.

OP can I ask are you talking about a primary or secondary school when you talk about your own experiences?