GP giving vaccine to his mate

[LoafEater]

So an acquaintance of mine has told a mutual friend that his friend, who is a GP in out local area, called him up at the end of a vaccine session and invited him down to the surgery to get a 'leftover' vaccine. He went and had it, and is telling people how delighted he is about it.

This acquaintance does not really work (independently wealthy/lazy), is in his mid-50s and has no health issues. I am livid. My brother lives in a care home has not had the vaccine yet, and I know lots of other people, myself included, who are working front line jobs or have health conditions that won't be getting it for a long time yet. I see from the press today that this seems to be happening all over. I suspect, knowing this man, that this was pre-planned rather than a last minute thing.

Don't know why I'm posting this really as there is nothing that can be done about it now, but I found out about this last week and I am still so cross!

@PurpleFlower1983

The lists are being put together but not in all areas yet.

Why? I know our local vaccination service said at the beginning of January they had the lists. We've had months to prepare for this.

It would be an excellent use for leftover doses if hospitals and GP surgeries located near prisons took them into the prisons and started vaccinating prisoners, starting with the most vulnerable first

Before Teachers or Police Officers? Not if I was in charge!

I would prioritise ALL key workers in society, before we vaccinate rapists and murderers.

I'm not sure the vaccine can be moved once it's opened. The thing creating the waste is the nature of the vaccine, which would never have been commercially viable without a global pandemic!

Realistically most practices would have the official reserve list who they will use with some notice - about an hour should do most people without caring commitments or mobility needs on most occasions. Then if your last appointment of the day is a no show you would probably go to the first person you thought of, or whoever you happened to have in your consulting room if appropriate (much fewer than usual).
I'd assume that with recent weather there have been more no shows (or centre closures to avoid waste!)

I work for a CCG and the practice is to have a list of NHS staff on standby to mop up any unused vaccine at the end of the day. It was offered to me at short notice a couple of weeks ago. I couldn’t get to the surgery in time. If another 50 something got it , rather then it bring chucked out then it’s fine by me.

I think people need to make themselves available. Why are they not answering the call if they are on a reserve list? Do they know they are?

He is actually an ex-boyfriend of mine who I lived with for while a long time ago, but we are now more acquaintances than the friends we were for about 25 years, so yes I do actually know he has no serious health conditions.

No, you absolutely don't know if he has any health conditions. He may not have had any when you lived with him 'a long time ago' and you say you are no longer friends, but acquaintances. You have no idea about his medical situation now.

That little dig aside, this situation is absolutely no ideal, but since the vaccinations go in the the bin if they are not used that day so I suppose it's better that someone gets it. Even if it's someone you don't like.

“As others have said it's better than it going in the bin.

But as people have also said, there should be a standby list of eligible people who are happy to be called on the fly if there are doses leftover.

However, that does take admin time and resources and it might not be as easy to implement as some people think. Calling down a list of people at 5pm when the surgery is about to shut, and arranging for someone to come in, is not all that practical or easy. The reality is that the NHS are really struggling at the moment and we can't expect everything to be perfect and ideal, so maybe we should cut them some slack.”

I agree with most of this but would think it’s rarely the case that only the last 1-2 appts of the day cancel resulting in surplus. There should be a list and they are called during the day. It’s actually unfair on HCPs to take a sensible decision and then get a flaming for it afterwards when there could just be a process.

I agree that no vaccine should be wasted but there needs to be a better system in place to use any excess. Surgeries should have a list of people at the right position in the “queue”who can come at short notice and they need to ensure a second dose is given appropriately.
There are loads of folk in the 80s/70s who could go along to their surgery at a moment’s notice.

Well it's better that someone receive the leftover than throwing it away. There should be a system in place where locals get called at the end of the day to ask if they're available and would like to come and have a vaccination.

It doesn't matter who gets it first, we will all get done. Just get as many done as possible as quick as possible.

At our local surgery they knocked on the doors of the block of flats opposite and asked them to all come over and get the left over vaccine, which is great.

@randomsabreuse Once opened the policy is to vaccinate promptly and the vaccine should not be moved around. It comes to the practice in adapted containers and vehicles to minimise shaking etc

Who will do the paperwork for those police men? Take their medical history and supervise their 15 minute wait time? It isn't as simple as just lining people up and jabbing them in the arm.

Wait lists sound like a great idea, but the reality of them is that people are quite fickle and you might have to actually ring 10 people until you get someone to come. And this would be at the end of a physically draining and busy day. I went into a vaccination centre yesterday- they were vaccinating at the rate of 1 person every 45 seconds. (Multiple teams and a very slick operation) Many of the team are doing this on top of their day jobs, many are doing it for free, they opened at 8.45 and vaccinated their last client at 6.20. Their receptionist booking in all the appointees would normally be found running their high profile Neurology Lab. The dedication and ability to give of this group of humans is outstanding.

"My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with a girl who....."

I actually think an ‘opt in’ standby list would be better, so people register the days they are available to attend short notice. It would make contacting them much more efficient.

Here in Ireland, hospital staff have been bollocked for giving leftover vaccines to their immediate family instead of priority patients.

But then nepotism is rife in Ireland.

I really can't get worked up about this....it's better than it going to waste. In fact I think it's a good thing, the number of people getting these "spares" must be tiny and it's criminal that the staff have to throw valuable resources away.

@SummerBlondey

It would be an excellent use for leftover doses if hospitals and GP surgeries located near prisons took them into the prisons and started vaccinating prisoners, starting with the most vulnerable first

Before Teachers or Police Officers? Not if I was in charge!

I would prioritise ALL key workers in society, before we vaccinate rapists and murderers.

Rapists and murderers make up a very small percentage of prison inmates.

Would you not consider prison staff to be key workers? They are definitely at risk of catching the virus, the same as medical staff and care workers, teachers and police officers.

This thread concerns vaccine left over at the end of a vaccination session which needs to be used quickly or else thrown away. I doubt there would be time to get hold of key workers so whoever is nearby should be offered it.

The vials have 5 or 6 doses and I believe (from gov website) that needs to be used in hours. Defrosted but vial not opened it has to be used within 5 days (again from gov website)

Plenty of people are desperate to get the vaccine, fit and well over 70s (in the top 4 groups who are the priority) would probably have plenty

people willing to be available in the last hour or two of the session. So when making Mr A an appointment for next Tuesday you ask him if there is a day this week when he would be prepared to be available within 30 minutes between 4 pm and 6 pm, if he says he is fine any day because he lives just round the corner then that is fine. Mr B might live an hour away but says he would be happy to sit in his car on their car park on Thursday and Friday then that is fine as well.

Before anyone tells me no one would do this my husband is mid 70s, ex police officer, he and his friends have all said they would sit outside all day on the offchance of getting it early and so that their future appointment can be freed up for someone else.

@LoafEater

Of course its unfair under those kind of circumstances that that person has been given the vaccine before key workers ,but i suppose its better to do that,than to bin left over vaccine isn't it.

I tell what's really scandalous is reading about that serial killer, Bedfield who murdered schoolgirl Milly Downy has the option or already had the vaccine given to him.

I mean where is the uk Gov/British Medical Board priorities doing that sort of thing then?
Why are serial killers/Rapists/Peodos been given this kind of considered in this way,jumping the queues ahead of key workers/vulnerable people at risk?
I despair at hearing stuff like that in the newspapers .

I doubt there would be time to get hold of key workers so whoever is nearby should be offered it. The care home where I work is minutes away from a big vaccination hub, I can assure you if they called us we would get staff there. We've seen half of our staff and over 60% of our residents with covid. We are very motivated and I imagine most care home staff would be the same.

There isn't the time and resources to set up a fairer way of using leftover vaccine doses. It has to be used within a certain timeframe or it needs to be disposed of, so you're going to get doctors contacting people they know.

Far better that someone had the jab than the vaccine be wasted. And presumably, if the person in question isn't working, they will be around to come at extremely short notice to use up the spare vaccine? We need all the population done, I can't see a problem with this....

At my local vaccine centre all the staff are volunteers - I've worked 2 shifts now - there are no 'spare' staff to phone around...we're needed to log the vaccines as they're given. Plus we use a different IT system to the GP surgeries so there is no access to patient lists.

I'm so sick of reading these threads, usually (but not exclusively) written by people who have absolutely NO idea how these things work. I'm nowhere near in possession of all the facts, but I know how hard people are working behind the scenes to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible. We're working damn hard (& usually getting no thanks for it).

My Dsis works in a hospital in the COVID vaccine department. They are so desperate not to waste the doses that at the end of the day, you can find people going around the hospital asking staff members if they want the vaccine (if they haven't already had it) or administering the vaccine to walk-ins without an appointment. Much better than wasting the dose!

@LoafEater

Of course its unfair your ex boyfriend who is wealthy/lazy,no health issues or vulnerable in any way has Jumped the queue ahead of more worthy people.

The Gov /medical board of uk should have a better system in place that's the real issue op !

Its better your ex boyfriend was given this left over, dose of vaccine than it was thrown in the bin.