Why have certain countries not suffered?

[Wilsonwilson]

There is a streamer I watch who has been trapped in Vietnam. They had a short lock down in march but have been fine since. Why? It doesn't make sense.

"Having lived in East Asia for many years, I absolutely believe that the more compliant, collectivist nature of East Asian culture"

God, I am sick of this. Compliant? Do people honestly still believe this?Korea threw out their president a few years ago. When was the last time the UK even had a big protest? The very idea that Koreans are compliant is laughable to me. There is a LONG tradition of rebellion in Korea as well as other EA countries.

What people are is more socially responsible. They also have a different attitude towards privacy - despite that, MANY refuse to comply with track and trace schemes. I think I read as many as 50% of people won't give correct details. So no, people are not just compliant, passive robots.

The issue is, without doubt, the government doing decent tracking and tracing and quarantining early. Mask wearing is normalised and no one has any of the (sorry) excuses British people have.

Also, if you're going to comment, maybe learn that South Korea is not communist nor a dictatorship. What do you think, that kpop is coming out of Kim Jong Un's regime? Really? SK is in the papers constantly, how can you not know they are different countries? "

As it makes you look stupid to make Judgements on issues you Clearly do not know fuck all about!" - how ironic.

"Almost half of deaths in Europe are in care homes. In much of Asia/Africa, people don’t live to care home age." - absolutely not the case in Korea/Japan.

Because some other countries are not old and fat. And their lack of general healthcare means people with serious conditions have already died from them. So they're not available to die of covid. Also, plenty of them just don't test as much, so they don't find.

"Because some other countries are not old and fat. And their lack of general healthcare means people with serious conditions have already died from them. So they're not available to die of covid. Also, plenty of them just don't test as much, so they don't find."

Not the case for much of east Asia (bar the fatness).

@tatutata

Because some other countries are not old and fat. And their lack of general healthcare means people with serious conditions have already died from them. So they're not available to die of covid. Also, plenty of them just don't test as much, so they don't find.

Which Asian counties are not testing as much? China has been strict on testing since January.

Friend in Singapore where little community transmission says it’s a combination of a collectivist culture where people care about others, rapid response, previous experience with virus outbreaks (SARS1) and an aggressive government suppression strategy including testing, tracing and border control.

Has the op said what answer she wanted, so that someone can give her the correct one and put the op out of her misery?

I think it’s the difference in culture with regards to elderly care homes.

As far as I’m aware (but correct me anyone who knows more about East Asian countries) homes are much less common/non-existent?

If the vulnerable elderly are being cared for at home they are likely safer than those in group care?

Also this may be linked to female employment rates? Ie women available to provide informal care and less outside contact if women are at home anyway?

"As far as I’m aware (but correct me anyone who knows more about East Asian countries) homes are much less common/non-existent?"

There are care homes everywhere in east Asia.

@Sarahandduck18

I think it’s the difference in culture with regards to elderly care homes.

As far as I’m aware (but correct me anyone who knows more about East Asian countries) homes are much less common/non-existent?

If the vulnerable elderly are being cared for at home they are likely safer than those in group care?

Also this may be linked to female employment rates? Ie women available to provide informal care and less outside contact if women are at home anyway?

I lived in China for 12 years and care within the family was common, often with generations living together and starting with grandparents moving in with their child to look after the grandchild.

The facts out the other day 43% of people in uk with symptoms don't get test .33% of people who are told to isolate don't do it properly .

Whilst people do this we are fighting a losing battle

@Eyewhisker

Almost half of deaths in Europe are in care homes. In much of Asia/Africa, people don’t live to care home age. Also younger people are in better health there - obesity is unknown in Vietnam/Korea/Japan but normalised in the U.K.

Japan has the highest number of over nineties in the world. I have close relatives in SE Asia and they feel that the swift and early reaction -eg efficient track and trace, community compliance, plus very high standards of hygiene generally, mask wearing a cultural norm , experience of SARS etc are all factors in the incredibly low death rate there. Lack of obesity probably a factor too. I can’t comment on Japan’s cases specifically as I have no knowledge of how they have managed to do so well, but they are incredibly hygiene focused generally and perhaps have less social physical contact, as they bow for a greeting ?

@ShanghaiDiva wasn't referring to Asian countries in terms of testing. Africa doesn't test much with the exception of South Africa. It's much easier for governments like Tanzania to say there is no covid (presumably so they can open tourism) if they don't test. They probably have a curious uptick in pneumonia deaths instead.

I can't believe people posting here are confusing South and North Korea. (The point about communist government in South Korea).

My family is from Hong Kong and we are in no way 'compliant'. We have been protesting against the communist government for since 2014 (with the yellow umbrella movement). But I agree with all the posts about the collective responsibility. There is a strong sense of doing something for the good of everyone.

Also, I saw an article on the South China Morning Post. www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3118929/hong-kong-lockdown-police-cordon-about-200
There's a video inside the video from a health minister. But it illustrated something very different from our city lockdowns here. In HK, they were testing the sewage for covid levels, then cordoned off 200 buildings in a very poor and very overcrowded part of HK. They tested all residents within in a weekend. Can you imagine we manage to do that in London?

And in the first paragraph, they talked about trying to avoid people flleing in advance of any future confinement orders. People don't just do what the governement tells them to do.

Sorry, it was me who said "compliant". I certainly wasn't implying that people are like passive robots who just accept whatever happens to them. I'm well aware of the history of protest in that part of the world, as well as more recent examples. The last time I was in Seoul, the riot police were out in force!

My meaning was more that people don't seem to feel the same need to rebel just for the sake of it. Maybe compliance was the wrong word, but there is something around the willingness to accept and follow rules for the collective good. Here, I think people can be very quick to assert their individual liberty, just because they can...even over trivial stuff that might actually be very sensible.

Outcomes arise because of multiple factors interacting in complex ways, not all of which we can account for

[quote tatutata]@ShanghaiDiva wasn't referring to Asian countries in terms of testing. Africa doesn't test much with the exception of South Africa. It's much easier for governments like Tanzania to say there is no covid (presumably so they can open tourism) if they don't test. They probably have a curious uptick in pneumonia deaths instead.[/quote]
A friend of mine lives in Tanzania and according to the govt covid has been defeated.
No mask wearing, no testing, no cases. It is indeed a miracle.

They’re not selfish whining children about wearing masks.

Happy to consider the health of others as well as their own.

And the difference between different countries experiences does make sense if you are actually prepared to take a long hard look at the political and social culture in your own country.

I am being yelled at on another thread for suggesting the use of masks outside, at least in crowded cities. " It's not our culture!". Well then make it our culture.

@NotGenerationAlpha

I can't believe people posting here are confusing South and North Korea. (The point about communist government in South Korea).

My family is from Hong Kong and we are in no way 'compliant'. We have been protesting against the communist government for since 2014 (with the yellow umbrella movement). But I agree with all the posts about the collective responsibility. There is a strong sense of doing something for the good of everyone.

Also, I saw an article on the South China Morning Post. www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3118929/hong-kong-lockdown-police-cordon-about-200
There's a video inside the video from a health minister. But it illustrated something very different from our city lockdowns here. In HK, they were testing the sewage for covid levels, then cordoned off 200 buildings in a very poor and very overcrowded part of HK. They tested all residents within in a weekend. Can you imagine we manage to do that in London?

They are testing sewage here in Aus too and putting out warnings where it's been detected asking people to get tested.

Getting tested is pretty easy also. Dh has had 2 as he has an asthma cough and got tested just before Christmas when we were catching up with lots of people.

I've had a test just because I went for the drive with dh, no symptoms.

Various reasons from genuinely having less cases and a less mobile population, better compliance etc to faking the statistics, not testing people who died so they don't appear to have had covid ... and in between there's different definitions used, different methodologies etc. Don't believe the figures!

Some countries have genuinely done better, they tend to have far younger average population ages and less of a traditional of nursing homes (up to half of deaths in western countries have been in these care facilities). Most European countries have similar outcomes despite different approaches to lockdown

@ShanghaiDiva

Other countries were more successful due to action taken: Sticker lockdown Quarantine in hotels for arrivals No movement between areas Better test and trace Test when you had symptoms, rather than our approach in March of stay at home Checking up on people isolating at home Closing borders There are massive differences between the way we responded and countries such as Singapore, HK, Taiwan, South Korea, China, Australia I believe we are going to introduce hotel quarantine, China implanted this in March and HK back in Feb.

You don't have hotel quarantine yet? I assume there are still flights incoming? What happens with the passengers and crew on those flights?

Oh and sars might have given them partial immunity I read

I wondered whether SARS might have given some immunity