People leaving London and now the UK for good

[Musicaldilemma]

We are in Outer London. Ten sets of friends have moved out of London to other parts of the U.K. over the summer. Now many other families are in the process of emigrating to The Middle East, various part of Asia, 2 NZ families who have been here 20 years trying to go home and 3 Aussie families (1 parent Australian). It is definitely much more than usual. It seems everyone who is rich enough and able to is trying to leave the country for good. It got me thinking to when I was a young successful professional - I think I may have tried to leave too. I am worried we are going to end up with an unhealthy, elderly population with all the young, successful people propping the economy back gone. I think the latest rounds of news have broken quite a lot of people I know who have international options, it looks worse than immediately after Brexit. Is it just my friendship group and the people I know at work? (Lawyer?) Or are others observing this too?

People leaving could be good for our kids and young Londoners, more opportunities for them. It’s hard to remember now but around 1999 and 2000 there was a real shortage of workers in London, lots of young Aussies but really it was pretty easy to get a job, competition for jobs was definitely lower for young people including me and my friends. We changed jobs regularly and with relative ease and for increasing salaries. Then we had a huge population growth around 2002/3 and it became an employers market and much harder and more competition. Obviously good for employers but less good for us!

People leaving could be good for our kids and young Londoners, more opportunities for them

I never understood that argument. if someone from Poland of Spain with English as a second language can get a job, why not those who are born and grew up here. The fact is, a lot of jobs done by those from abroad are too hard, and beneath the natives.

I feel like I must comment because I only arrived in London in September ( not read the whole thread). I love it here. I think there is so much to love about the city ( not had a chance to explore the rest of the UK) Covid is making it very hard ofc. But I would like to stay if I could.

@sashagabadon

People leaving could be good for our kids and young Londoners, more opportunities for them. It’s hard to remember now but around 1999 and 2000 there was a real shortage of workers in London, lots of young Aussies but really it was pretty easy to get a job, competition for jobs was definitely lower for young people including me and my friends. We changed jobs regularly and with relative ease and for increasing salaries. Then we had a huge population growth around 2002/3 and it became an employers market and much harder and more competition. Obviously good for employers but less good for us!

Yep just reading about IT people leaving. Ds wants to do tech career maybe free up some spots.

It's very easy to be very down on the UK. There's a lot that I hate about the direction we're heading as a country BUT to imagine we're among the worst is too hysterical for me.

We're winning the vaccine roll out it's a UK based vaccine that's selling at a fraction of the cost off the others and committed to not profiting from the vaccine in developing countries. We still get some things right.

Not beneath the natives! Just more competition, and employers could start demanding more. My friends all left school with o levels / a levels and all got good jobs in the city and moved around, gained promotions, earnt well. That’s just not possible for young people now, degrees minimum.
Maybe that’ll change abit. We’ll have to wait and see. I hope so

@Frequentflier

I feel like I must comment because I only arrived in London in September ( not read the whole thread). I love it here. I think there is so much to love about the city ( not had a chance to explore the rest of the UK) Covid is making it very hard ofc. But I would like to stay if I could.

Here here! And you are very welcome too

@sashagabadon

People leaving could be good for our kids and young Londoners, more opportunities for them. It’s hard to remember now but around 1999 and 2000 there was a real shortage of workers in London, lots of young Aussies but really it was pretty easy to get a job, competition for jobs was definitely lower for young people including me and my friends. We changed jobs regularly and with relative ease and for increasing salaries. Then we had a huge population growth around 2002/3 and it became an employers market and much harder and more competition. Obviously good for employers but less good for us!

Golden days. Literally!

Thanks, Sashagabadon. Am not trying to downplay the many problems in the UK. So many things that should be put right. But sometimes I think ( as an outsider) that there is so much wonderful about it: the culture, the open space, the humour, the NHS, the educational opportunities. My son is working very hard towards being allowed to stay- he will need a work visa eventually- and I hope he can at least.

People always move around. I'm from Scotland originally but lived in London for about 8 years after uni. I've also lived in southern Europe for just over 20 years. While I lived there people came and went all the time, from the UK, Germany, US, Australia, New Zealand, Russia and loads of other countries.

There are pros and cons everywhere. We moved back to the UK because of the very poor SN provision for DD. What we have be able to access since we came back has been perfect for DD. I know that is not the case for everyone. However I do miss the sun and the food. I also like being nearer to family.

Nowhere is perfect and although the UK has changed (we noticed the difference when we came back) other countries have their issues too.I think there is a tendency to idealise a place when you are not living there but when it comes to the reality of day to day living it can be quite different.

Although we seem to have a totally incompetent government I am a member of a Facebook group for the town we used to live near In Portugal and I see just the same moaning about masks, school closures and lockdown as you get here and that is not an expat group but locals who have lived there all their lives.

I think when you are not happy somewhere you always think of the negatives. Although there are a lot of shit things in this country I don't think there is some Nirvana out there and all you can do is try to find somewhere you can be happy

That’s just not possible for young people now, degrees minimum.

But surely a lot of that is driven by the big push to get more kids into uni so where before degrees weren't needed they are now part of the criteria for many jobs.

@Frequentflier

Thanks, Sashagabadon. Am not trying to downplay the many problems in the UK. So many things that should be put right. But sometimes I think ( as an outsider) that there is so much wonderful about it: the culture, the open space, the humour, the NHS, the educational opportunities. My son is working very hard towards being allowed to stay- he will need a work visa eventually- and I hope he can at least.

I hope your son gets his visa. London is a great city. So many opportunities especially for young people.

Those who are leaving because of the Tory government:

What happens if the country you move to suddenly gets a government which you don’t like?
Will you move again?

@wellardwoof

That’s just not possible for young people now, degrees minimum.

But surely a lot of that is driven by the big push to get more kids into uni so where before degrees weren't needed they are now part of the criteria for many jobs.

I would say both. Degrees were absolutely not the norm when I left school. My highest earning friend now left school with 5 o levels. She was earning £40k with an expense account in the city at 22. Bet that wouldn’t happen now!

@Andante57

Those who are leaving because of the Tory government:

What happens if the country you move to suddenly gets a government which you don’t like?
Will you move again?

I don't believe anyone leaves just because of the Tory government. That would be nuts.

@Andante57

There is a UK bashing section - the Brexit threads

The bashers should do us all a favour and remain there.

There's a constant unpleasant spillover into the Coronavirus threads. Inexplicable

If I got a pound every time someone brings up Brexit out of context I would be rich by now

I just posted this on another thread

Londoners - enjoy!

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow

It's very easy to be very down on the UK. There's a lot that I hate about the direction we're heading as a country BUT to imagine we're among the worst is too hysterical for me.

We're winning the vaccine roll out it's a UK based vaccine that's selling at a fraction of the cost off the others and committed to not profiting from the vaccine in developing countries. We still get some things right.

I judge on results.

We have one of the worst economic hits.

The third worst death toll per capita on earth.

(with tens of thousands more British people going to die over the next few weeks.)

And about 175 countries have had fewer covid deaths in total over the whole pandemic than we're having in a single month of January.

And we don't know if the government have screwed up the vaccine rollout yet, but extending the gap between doses is risky. That's why nobody else is doing it.

Lived in Canada since 2009 and can't say I ever regret moving. The reaction to covid / gov handling just reiterates this.

@Andante57

Those who are leaving because of the Tory government

What happens if the country you move to suddenly gets a government which you don’t like

Err...their rabidness will reignite. They will revert back to their old ways and resume their futile attempts to force their twisted ideas into their (new) audience until they are told to bugger off and need to move (yet) again.

I am Canadian, with a British DS and a young baby. If it weren't for DH's job that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world (at the moment), we would be out of the UK like a shot. The political situation here is dire. Quality of life here is unbelievably low for a first-world country and Brexit is only making it worse. I do not want my son to grow up here, as I have lived elsewhere and it is better.

@MooseBreath

I do not want my son to grow up here, as I have lived elsewhere and it is better

Ingratitude springs to mind, sorry

@OneKeyAtATime

I work in academia and can think of a few colleagues who have left Britain for good in the last few years. In their cases it was because of Brexit.

This. I was one of them, and know many others.

@MooseBreath

If it weren't for DH's job that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world (at the moment), we would be out of the UK like a shot

So, the whole family is living off investment and innovation in the UK, obviously this is not good enough and you deserve better, right?