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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

So it looks like we're being prepared for children not to go back until after Easter

999 replies

choosingcrumble · 24/01/2021 08:59

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/children-face-months-at-home-as-schools-stay-shut-until-easter-wp5ltpm82?fbclid=IwAR1l0gRSzuJLIv508reRmBEojbYfoGOsWwe3_pBFmKpA4EbI1IgC5dKC2uE

I suspected it wouldn't be until then, let's just hope that it doesn't stretch into the summer.

OP posts:
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Sweetnessandbite · 24/01/2021 14:25

Rachellow, yes and sadly seen a few of those children still out in groups hanging round shops. Clearly not on live lessons. There will be gaps everywhere and it's extending it in many cases.

Kokeshi123 · 24/01/2021 14:26

Have you ever tried baking with a 7 year old, 5 year old and a 2 year old. It is not a fun experience!

God, I hate the "baking" advice too. Apparently, the way to make family life under lockdown go smoothly, is to engage in an activity which increases the amount of mess, washing-up and clearing-up by about 500%.

I tried baking with mine. When I finally collapsed into bed that night, I looked back on the day and realized that I had literally spent the whole day-from the time I got up to the time I went to beddoing housework. I fucking hate baking with kids.

Kokeshi123 · 24/01/2021 14:29

Agree with Chevy. Once the total mortality stats look similar to other years, we need to get kids back into school. I totally agree that schools need to close for a while, but zero COVID is not going to be happening, and we don't demand zero risk for anything else in life, like cars or norovirus.

I think teachers should be bumped up the vaccine list.... but if this happens, people will push for opening before the summer and teachers must be prepared for this too.

ChevyCamaro · 24/01/2021 14:30

Oh amen to that Kokeshi! I have even reduced cooking in general. Have never got so many takeaways..

Abraxan · 24/01/2021 14:30

@EmmanuelleMakro

Back after Feb half term.
Whilst it might be a start re education I can't see how it would work, and certainly wouldn't mean February half term.
  • if teaching staff were vaccinated now, what happens to those who are in the highest priority groups who should now be getting it - do we divert away from those most likely to be ill, or die, and hope for the best? Do we try to get extra supplies? If so, how?

  • the vaccine needs 3 weeks for the first dose to start working. There are currently some concerns that the amount of protection from just one dose, with the pziefer vaccine, is too low after one dose. Even if it isn't it still needs 3 weeks. That means vaccinated every teacher and TA this week if you want it to mean schools open at half term. Stats from the Government state that in 2019 there were 945,805 'full time equivalent' people working in state schools in England. This means there are over 1 million people to vaccinate if you then consider the number of part time, plus non state workers.

  • the vaccine means that those staff should hopefully have reduced symptoms and be less ill if they catch covid. right now we don't know if the vaccine will prevent enough people catching it or if the vaccinated can still tram]nd it the virus. Therefore there will still be school and class closures, self isolation, etc. Covid could still spread between children. Children could still take covid home to their families - some of these will be vulnerable, but because we diverted all the vaccines to school staff they have to wait longer and are still at risk.

I am surprised leaders of 'top schools' haven't appeared to consider the obvious issues.

ChevyCamaro · 24/01/2021 14:30

Baking I mean! x post!

ChimaeraEgg · 24/01/2021 14:32

Olive, I agree, getting out helps a lot.

I don't find it does. We go for a walk every day because I would feel bad if we didn't but it's usually just an hour of DS complaining and wanting to go back home. We prefer being indoors.

TokyoSushi · 24/01/2021 14:36

Not RTFT but am also completely horrified/not at all surprised that it seems that it's going to be Easter at the very earliest, or even May, or even September at this rate!

What I'm really struggling to understand though is why the education system is so unwilling to try to adapt? Putting keyworkers etc to one side for a minute, why does it need to be such a black & white 'all in, or all out' approach?

Things like half days, couple of days a week, week in/week off don't even seem to be being considered. This would clearly allow for smaller class sizes and therefore better distancing. Matt Hancock also seems fairly hell bent on vaccinating in order of clinical need. Bearing in mind lots of teachers are in their 20's and 30's, it's going to be an absolute eternity until it's their turn under the current system.

Their seems to be a complete failure to understand that just because we can't do 'old school' doesn't mean we should do no school. Or is it just an unwillingness to try?

(our home school system is utterly shit, no live lessons, massively parent led, I have 2 primary DC, WFH full time, DH works out of the home all day, I've been doing this for getting on for a year and am pretty much at the end of my rope)

Wizzwazzwas · 24/01/2021 14:37

I am very tired of the whole pandemic and my mental health is suffering.

My eldest DC is going to end up with substantially worse exam results than without a pandemic, and both primary and secondary remote provision was until this month, let’s be kind and say “ropey” at best. All my DC massively miss their friends and social activities.

I want nothing more than for normal life, socialisation for my kids and schools fully open.

I do not think this is a reasonable aim any time soon.

There seems to be a LOT of misunderstanding about vaccination.

Firstly, if you vaccinate all the most vulnerable groups by mid Feb and reduce deaths massively this does not mean it is ok the let the virus circulate more.

The “most vulnerable groups” referred to are the top four. It is right that giving these groups at least one jab will very likely substantially reduce deaths (third image attached is from www.actuaries.org.uk). This is absolutely fantastic. However, it will NOT alone stop the NHS being overwhelmed if things like schools reopen. These groups are not the ones in intensive care mostly, and many many of the people who become ill enough to need hospital admission and then recover are under 70.

If community transmission stays at high rates or increases again the NHS will be overwhelmed EVEN IF those top 4 groups have substantial immunity, because younger patients will need weeks of hospital and ICU care. Some will die, and if there are too many not all will get good enough care or an ICU bed if they need it.

Death is not the only measure. Many of those who have survived ICU or long hospital ward stays and some of those who were ill at home suffer long term health consequences. Things like needing oxygen at home months later, being unable to resume usual day to day activities, heart damage and all the long covid symptoms people talk about. It is a nasty disease for lots of people, including people who are not elderly and did not have anything wrong with them beforehand.

Hospitals are full to bursting right now and will take some weeks to be less full, as people don’t recover and go home instantly. Some people who will get ill enough to need hospital or ICU from the current wave aren’t in there yet. Reopening things like schools will lead to increased community rates more generally as children are vectors.

Secondly the idea of vaccinating teachers. There are nine priority vaccine groups. The top four prevent the majority of deaths. The next five then have the biggest impact on serious disease, i.e. likelihood of needing ICU or hospital stay. If teachers are in one of these groups as well as being a teacher then they get their first jab when their turn comes. If they are not, then because vaccine supply is limited letting teachers go first means others at higher risk of death or serious disease wait longer. This not only seems morally wrong, but also means, yes you guessed it, it’s a worse strategy when the NHS is already struggling.

Vaccinating teachers does not address the reason for school closures which is to reduce community transmission as others have said. It is the limited vaccine supply that limits the speed of the vaccination rollout.

The first two attached images show the national data which illustrates that the vast majority of ICU admissions are really not elderly or clinically vulnerable.

So it looks like we're being prepared for children not to go back until after Easter
So it looks like we're being prepared for children not to go back until after Easter
So it looks like we're being prepared for children not to go back until after Easter
studychick81 · 24/01/2021 14:39

God! I excepted this and never thought they'd go back after half term. I literally don't think I can last until easter/may. I am trying to manage my own work, home schooling two dcs during the week and uni work at the weekend. I can't sustain working 6/7 days a week until then. Ds behaviour is terrible and I find myself crying several times a week. I am worried about ds mental health. DH are arguing loads and I am just exhausted.

formerbabe · 24/01/2021 14:39

I feel like I'm in the worst kind of hell. I can cope with feeling shit myself...what I can't cope with is seeing my dc struggle and not being able to make things better for them

ChevyCamaro · 24/01/2021 14:39

We get out every day. In the first lockdown dc would come for really long walks. Now its maybe 40 mins of traipsing round the streets (parks too busy, woods too busy, and too muddy)
One of them football is his life- he has had no training for months and has gone from very athletic to couch potato. Children's sports are really sufffering, and that will have an impact on health both mental and physical. The despair and depression is really setting in with teen. I see the anxiety, anti social attitude and general paranoia increasing daily, along with the lack of academic motivation, and that's aside from my own stress of trying to work 40+ hours a week in a job that continues to be very pressured. I might not die of covid but the stress is doing me actual harm I can feel it.
It's very worrying.

ilovesushi · 24/01/2021 14:40

I posted earlier but wanted to add that while I am desperate to get the children back even for one day a week, it has to be when it is safe to do so, not just because it suits our family! When I say I want them back, I also mean - I want the infection rate down and the death rate down and a working test and trace system and a speedily rolled out vaccination programme. We've lost somebody very close and very dear - a so-called 'excess death'. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.

blue25 · 24/01/2021 14:42

@3littlewords

Keep schools closed til easter i can live with, what I won't accept is keeping our children locked indoors until then too. Prisoners probably have more freedom than our children currently its not fair. There needs to be relaxation in terms of mixing before Easter, rule of 6 outdoors for example, children need to have some form of socialising with their peers and extended family
Children aren’t locked up indoors though are they? We go out daily for walks and still use the garden for other exercise, trampoline etc. It’s parents responsibility to make sure their children are getting out each day.
Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople · 24/01/2021 14:43

@Sparkles715

I’m a teacher and a parent and want schools open sooner. WHY won’t the government just take steps to make schools safer? I would love to see all children in at least one day a week in small groups. It could probably be more. Some school is better than no school. WHY do the government seem to insist on full time or nothing?
Totally agree. We could have children in once a week in small groups to maintain friendships, play, have home learning introduced etc.
formerbabe · 24/01/2021 14:45

We've lost somebody very close and very dear - a so-called 'excess death'. Wouldn't wish it on anyone

I'm very sorry for your loss but I'm confused with your comment that you wouldn't wish it on anyone? Nearly all of us will experience losing someone, regardless of covid. I've lost many people...I'm all honesty, living like this is doing more harm to my mental health than any bereavement has

ConfusedcomMum · 24/01/2021 14:45

@Kokeshi123

Have you ever tried baking with a 7 year old, 5 year old and a 2 year old. It is not a fun experience!

God, I hate the "baking" advice too. Apparently, the way to make family life under lockdown go smoothly, is to engage in an activity which increases the amount of mess, washing-up and clearing-up by about 500%.

I tried baking with mine. When I finally collapsed into bed that night, I looked back on the day and realized that I had literally spent the whole day-from the time I got up to the time I went to beddoing housework. I fucking hate baking with kids.

This ×100!! 🤣

Glad I'm not the only one, was started to think I live in an alternate universe than most MNetters! I've had a box of ready cake mix on my worktop for weeks and everytime I think I should probably use it, it fills me with dread and I pretend I haven't seen it. And it's ready mix - not even baking from scratch! 😣

bumbleymummy · 24/01/2021 14:46

Over 70s + over 80s make up over 60% of hospitalisations in our area. There are also probably quite a few CV in the younger age groups who will also receive the vaccine in the first roll out. That will make a massive difference to hospitalisations. Hospitalisation rates in younger age groups is much lower.

Totallydefeated · 24/01/2021 14:46

It’s parents responsibility to make sure their children are getting out each day.

With what time, exactly?

When I’m homeschooling for 6 hours and working for 8, that gives me the princely sum of 2 hours to do everything else including cooking, cleaning, shopping and all the other shitty boring chores.

How do I fit in the regulation hours outside too? Cut myself in half? I’d be interested to know what your solution is.

MarshaBradyo · 24/01/2021 14:46

Things like half days, couple of days a week, week in/week off don't even seem to be being considered. This would clearly allow for smaller class sizes and therefore better distancing.

For everyone? Including KW

Kitkat151 · 24/01/2021 14:47

@3littlewords

Keep schools closed til easter i can live with, what I won't accept is keeping our children locked indoors until then too. Prisoners probably have more freedom than our children currently its not fair. There needs to be relaxation in terms of mixing before Easter, rule of 6 outdoors for example, children need to have some form of socialising with their peers and extended family
Why are you keeping your children indoors?
Livelovebehappy · 24/01/2021 14:47

But how can you make primary schools safer for all DCs to return? It would be impossible. Can you imagine a class of 30 wearing masks and the teachers having to police that, and enforcing social distancing? Secondary schools would be different, as at that age children can follow instructions.

Rachellow · 24/01/2021 14:48

I do worry about the ks1 children I teach especially those with no siblings and would love to have them in once a week for a socially distanced hour in the playground.
As much as I try to give them some chatty time it does not work to have 25 speaking over eachother on TEAMs.

Ihatemyseleffordoingthis · 24/01/2021 14:50

"Children aren’t locked up indoors though are they? We go out daily for walks and still use the garden for other exercise, trampoline etc. It’s parents responsibility to make sure their children are getting out each day."

Gosh you are oblivious to other people's challenges, aren't you?

ConfusedcomMum · 24/01/2021 14:53

@ilovesushi

I posted earlier but wanted to add that while I am desperate to get the children back even for one day a week, it has to be when it is safe to do so, not just because it suits our family! When I say I want them back, I also mean - I want the infection rate down and the death rate down and a working test and trace system and a speedily rolled out vaccination programme. We've lost somebody very close and very dear - a so-called 'excess death'. Wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Same. On paper it was an 'underlying condition' but irl they were living a full and active independent life. Hurts so much. I couldn't care less how compliant others are anymore and I'll keep adhering to the rules but I just want the Government to use this lockdown break effectively this time, learn from their mistakes and get a hold on the situation so that we don't need to lockdown and shut schools ever again!