Will there be a plan for “spare vaccines”?

[Lemons1571]

I understand that vaccine hubs have been giving end-of-day spares to family and friends, if they can get there at short notice. But surely they’ll run out of these “add on” people very quickly? I know our hub had 100 no shows one day last week. Surely there should be something better in place than grabbing a few random passerby's? After all, the government message is “people will die”, so surely there should be some formal procedures to use up the spare doses.

Why would you think randoms are being offered the vaccine, why would you think there AREN'T formal procedures in place?

Because there aren't everywhere. Mostly they seem to be calling their mates or relatives, which is winding me up more than it should.

I couldn't give a shit if they're shooting people up at bus stops if the alternative is wasting a dose. If no one higher up the list is available that short notice SOMEONE should get it. Its still one less person likely to die.

My mum had a phone call on Thursday early morning asking if she could go that day for hers, it was clearly to use up 'spares' as she is in the next group down from the scheduled ones at the moment. She replied she'd go at 4am if it meant getting it asap

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Why would you think randoms are being offered the vaccine, why would you think there AREN'T formal procedures in place?

Because there aren't everywhere. Mostly they seem to be calling their mates or relatives, which is winding me up more than it should.

But this is the thing...... there is NO evidence to support this. Read previous pp's.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but OP is insisting it is the norm.
It isn't.

I’m a volunteer steward, if they can’t get fellow HCPs in before end of the day then the vaccines are offered to marshals...if more marshals than vaccines its been names out of a hat. Personally I’d do it in age order, I’m early 30s, some I would say were early-mid 50s but vaccines went to 20 somethings whose names were pulled. Great if you get it but not sure I’d feel comfortable having it ahead of someone older. If I’m the oldest then by all means if it’s otherwise destined for the bin!

In the hospital they get offered round the wards and if any are left over they get chucked, not allowed to give anyone their second dose

We run out onto the street, there is a supermarket close too if needed. We have only ever has 2 or 3 leftovers. No shows vaccines are given through the day to carers where we can as that will really help protect the most vulnerable.

Compliance is very high here so far. Something has gone very wrong when there are 100 leftover vaccines.

I'd honestly prefer the spares to go to some 19yo "wandering past the GP" than be wasted... Yes there should be a process in any setting for apportioning out spare doses. And in a totally ideal world those spare doses should go to the vulnerable first. But failing that (and on a generous interpretation these GP practises are probably pretty stretched at the moment..) the leftover vaccine needs to go somewhere. Any adult.

I'd be far more aggrieved if spare vaccine ended up being binned.

I think it's really important to remember that the setups of centres vary massively. At ours there is very little leftover. The no shows mostly go to the spouse of someone highly vulnerable.

The very few left have to be given in a very short space of time as the centre is closing. 2 or 3 vaccines given randomly is still vaccinating someone in our population who will need it eventually, which is always better than it going on the bin.

I really don't understand why anywhere is having large numbers of leftovers and time to be calling people from home.

We were doing our over 80s this morning. Booked in 132 but called another 8 in as we managed to get 12 rather than 11 doses from the vial so that can be a reason. For some reason some of the vials are giving this extra dose. They were supposed to be 10 dose vials, are reliably 11 dose vials but some give 12. It was great fun. We gave one to a 79 year old wife as we will be starting those in 10 days anyway

No shows could be people who have moved away, or are staying as a temporary resident at relatives who get a letter but aren't there to receive it so they don't know about the appointment.

@FelicityBob

In the hospital they get offered round the wards and if any are left over they get chucked, not allowed to give anyone their second dose

This is scandalous if true.

Spares are being offered to whoever can get there.
I know that to be true because I had my 1st jab 2 weeks ago. A dose that had 30 minutes to go before it was binned.
Most people would rather they are used instead of binned.

Public facing council workers here - do wonder if people will start lining up outside.

I couldn't give a shit if they're shooting people up at bus stops if the alternative is wasting a dose. If no one higher up the list is available that short notice SOMEONE should get it. Its still one less person likely to die.

and

I'd honestly prefer the spares to go to some 19yo "wandering past the GP" than be wasted... Yes there should be a process in any setting for apportioning out spare doses. And in a totally ideal world those spare doses should go to the vulnerable first. But failing that (and on a generous interpretation these GP practises are probably pretty stretched at the moment..) the leftover vaccine needs to go somewhere. Any adult.

I'd be far more aggrieved if spare vaccine ended up being binned.

Although, like others, I'm puzzled why there are so many no shows. Like Lunar - it would seem sensible to offer to those who bring / accompany elderly relatives as the day goes on if there are individual no shows during the morning. However, the GP Practices and NHS generally are under such pressure at the moment, quite frankly, any solution they can come up with to not wasting vaccines that can't be stored, is a good solution, in my book.

I heard one elderly lady on the radio the other day saying she doesn’t turn her mobile on often and when she did, she had received a text to say she had an appointment which had already passed. I think a lot of other elderly people could well be the same if a text is the only notification of their appointment. I think this goes some way to explain no shows.

Any spare vaccines should be given to anyone in the vicinity rather than going to waste. Of course it should be in priority order if practicable, but if there are a few doses left that would otherwise be binned then give them to absolutely anyone.

The day they had the 100 no shows may have been they day, at least where I live the snow caused chaos and people were not going out, the roads were treacherous, they offered the vaccines to police and fire fighters, who could get to the centre.

The no shows are often people isolating because of either symptoms or someone in their bubble getting a test / waiting on results. Plenty of older people bubbled with young families, or providing childcare, that would need to isolate in this instance.

Also people relying on a lift that doesn’t follow through, transport is often a big issue with the elderly. And then people forgetting which day it is, or going to the wrong place (their gp surgery instead of the vaccine hub). All sorts of reasons!

I took my mil in for her vaccine today and came out vaccinated as well as my husband. I was talking to my mil about when those who work in education are getting theirs and was offered it there and then as well as my husband. This was in a busy London hospital.Very thankful for it.

I'm puzzled why there are so many no shows

Lots of elderly people with dementia who forget. My mum took a friend for hers today who has what is perhaps no longer so mild dementia. When she got to her house to collect her, she had forgotten and wasn't there and she had to track her and her paperwork down but somehow still got there on time.

I think if they've got spare doses and are in a university city they should get some of the students done. It's not purely about age, it's about risk and if students and key uni staff were all done they could all get back to their studies with some level of normality.

@Musicaltheatremum

No shows could be people who have moved away, or are staying as a temporary resident at relatives who get a letter but aren't there to receive it so they don't know about the appointment.

You aren't "given" an appointment. You book it for yourself at a convenient time and location.

@Musicaltheatremum

We were doing our over 80s this morning. Booked in 132 but called another 8 in as we managed to get 12 rather than 11 doses from the vial so that can be a reason. For some reason some of the vials are giving this extra dose. They were supposed to be 10 dose vials, are reliably 11 dose vials but some give 12. It was great fun. We gave one to a 79 year old wife as we will be starting those in 10 days anyway

Brillaint . Perfect, sensible solution.

Randoms are definitely being offered in some areas. Our friends in Redbridge got vaccinated last week because they knew the local GP- she’s late 30s and he’s in his 40s 🤷🏻‍♀️. These were left at the end of the day so better to be used than not but surely you’d expect better contingency plan in place?

As a front line council worker my team were sent an urgent email asking us to sign up as the slots at the hospital hadn’t been filled. Got the email at 7am had the job at 6.30pm. Most of my team will be jabbed this weekend.

Know of other non hospital based medics - dentists hygienists etc who have been offered ‘left over’ vaccines.

I hope they start to offer it to education staff ASAP!!!

Jab not job!