Can we unlock the schools at start of Feb?

[MeandT]

I'm totally supportive of the lockdown BUT by the end of next week, case numbers nationally will be the same as they were at end of November. Hospital admissions are falling again.

Rather than going back into tiers with the shops and food pubs open (where all the spreading happened in December), can we not issue all the teachers with N95 masks (and vaccines for the clinically vulnerable), make all the kids wear triple layer face masks all the time, and just get on with the important job of educating this country's kids in person? Starting again 1st of Feb.

AIBU to ask if we can send the kids back as soon as we hit the case rate we unlocked at on 2nd December?

IABU= no way, the cases will shoot up too quickly again, even if they all wear masks all day.

IANBU = yes, get them back before half term, the only reason it went nuts in December was because everyone was out Christmas shopping and seeing family.

This is a simple, medical issue. Why are we letting disinformation drive the debate across the country?

Schools already know who is on an EHCP plan for autism and who has to have inhalers at school for asthma. There is no additional workload for GPs because the schools already know everyone who has a breathing or sensory problem legitimate enough to not wear a mask.

Kids suddenly turning up with unmedicated asthma either need to get themselves to their nearest asthma clinic for assessment and bring their letter in. Or if it's bullshit as many of these instances are, simply decide between which is more important - in person schooling, or staying home without one and getting lessons from the BBC instead.

I know there are plenty of websites and you tube videos which are well funded and slick from people who would tell you masks don't reduce transmission rates. But it's simply not true.

If kindergarten kids can do it in other countries, they can do it here. Or stay at home while everyone else gets on as soon as it's safe enough to do so!

@CallmeAngelina

And I will post this statistic again: only 8% of the adult working population has children of primary school age. Why does their ability to keep their job trump that of everyone else whose jobs are either furloughed, at risk or lost altogether?

I agree, Angelina. Most of us on here have children and/or work in education and we get get tunnel visioned. The 92% of workers who don’t have primary school children were very understanding at first but I’ve seen a different feeling following the November lockdown. I think Marsha said earlier that she hopes schools will continue to be priority but I wonder if the government will be reconsidering that given the increasingly documented link between infection rates and schools staying open. The Science combined with other voices shouting loudly may lead to a change in direction. Who knows?

Children who can’t wear masks should definitely have to provide a medical exemption letter to attend school. The Muzzle Brigade can’t be trusted.

There is no additional workload for GPs because the schools already know everyone who has a breathing or sensory problem legitimate enough to not wear a mask.

What about those without confirmed diagnosis? Especially with autism and sensory issues, those take years, or should that be taken on the say-so of parents?

It's not just about wearing masks either. There's the social distancing issue, which most kids don't stick to. Especially in secondary, where there is no policing kids before or after school. Before Christmas, I had the joy of driving down a road a few streets from a secondary and it's absolute madness. Masses of kids all walking down the street together. Never mind all the touching of walls and such during the day, you literally don't think of the multiple surfaces that everyone touches every day and only get cleaned once a day, or maybe gets completely skipped. It doesn't take a genius to figure out how schools are such a breeding ground for the virus, even with compulsory masks and hand cleaning.

Interesting set of graphs released by the ONS today. Random sampling so doesn't require symptoms or applying for a test.

It's clear that closing schools has had a massive impact on infection rates in secondary school children. Not so much on nursery/primary, probably because so many are still in.

Working age population figures are quite worrying though.

Schools are not locked.
They're not even closed.
Our school is open every day, full time hours, including the on site breakfast club.
We have approx 40-50% of classes in most days.

These numbers are also why staggered starts won't work, or part time rotas - unless we say that critical worker and vulnerable child provision stops.

If Gavin is true to his work schools and parents will get 2 weeks notice of schools returning to being open to all/more.
If this is the case the earliest schools will open now is 10 February.
Initially the Government said at least until half term iirr, which is the week after that.

@noblegiraffe

Interesting set of graphs released by the ONS today. Random sampling so doesn't require symptoms or applying for a test.

It's clear that closing schools has had a massive impact on infection rates in secondary school children. Not so much on nursery/primary, probably because so many are still in.

Working age population figures are quite worrying though.

Even more concerning, it’s increasing in primary age children alongside the parent age groups.

In fact looking at the data, primary age children have the biggest increase in cases.

@Spikeyball

Masks for ALL wouldn't work because large numbers of those who most need to be in school can't wear masks.

Like who?

The R rate is now under 1, infections are in retreat. Let’s keep the vaccinations up, let’s all be good for another 4 weeks and let’s get schools back after half term.

Bustopher do you have a link to the 8% stat?

I know people want this pressure to get stronger so schools are not prioritised - or maybe not so I’d better check - Is it what you’d like?

But the reason schools are a priority is in no way to ameliorate the few that don’t get KW place. I can say quite easily once KW places are filled it’s not to help working parents to get dc back. As long as healthcare etc can turn up no one is worried about the rest. It’s more about the impact on children.

France- schools are open
Italy- high school students back
Germany- closed
Greece- schools are open
Spain- schools are open
Portugal- schools are open
Netherlands- schools closed
Ireland- schools open
Sweden- schools are open

Source bbc.co.uk. @donotdelete your post wasn’t clear or helpful. Was this what you were trying to say?

England - schools are open.

I know that because I'm sitting in one. Not fully for all students, but neither are they in all of those countries either.

@Pundemmic

France- schools are open Italy- high school students back Germany- closed Greece- schools are open Spain- schools are open Portugal- schools are open Netherlands- schools closed Ireland- schools open Sweden- schools are open

Source bbc.co.uk. @donotdelete your post wasn’t clear or helpful. Was this what you were trying to say?

Could you link? They sound more open than I thought they would be but who is in? Is it all children

@Itisasecret

In fact looking at the data, primary age children have the biggest increase in cases.

They have now just spent more time with their infections teenage siblings and parents than would normally. Schools closed/Christmas/lockdown.

The virus takes a while to work through a family most the time.

Ireland-schools open

Can anyone clarify this one-I didn’t think that was the case?

Schools aren’t open in Ireland, no.

Ireland schools are completely closed-not open to key workers

"Spikeyball

Masks for ALL wouldn't work because large numbers of those who most need to be in school can't wear masks."

Like who?

Like the vast majority of young people in ds's special school for a start. Children who have been attending throughout lockdown due to being considered vulnerable.

This is the article- not every country mentioned made reference to schools so apologies for Ireland.

@noblegiraffe

Interesting set of graphs released by the ONS today. Random sampling so doesn't require symptoms or applying for a test.

It's clear that closing schools has had a massive impact on infection rates in secondary school children. Not so much on nursery/primary, probably because so many are still in.

Working age population figures are quite worrying though.

The graphs seems to show a similar pattern to most age groups. The rise could be argued as the new variant taking hold. It has been about since September. And then the falls schools closing or lockdown working.

The massive drop in infections in teenagers could be compared to the massive drop in London. When it takes hold of a group or place so sharply it drops nearly as suddenly when curbs are put in place.

Not saying you are wrong but I think the actual data needs to be looked at more carefully. These graphs don't show anything that wouldn't be expected. If schools had been closed but no lockdown or Christmas time off work then it would be so much clearer.

Oh and if anyone is unclear kids over 12 transmit the virus equally as much as adults.

So they need the same kind of safety measures to stop transmission.

Kids 9/10 to 12 also have been proven to have a higher viral load than younger kids.

Under 9s les viral load but how much they can spread the virus we don't know yet.

Or I don’t know, it maybe increasing at a faster rate in primary children because a lot of them are still in school. With no masks, no sd, small classrooms and all the rest of it. It’s not exactly rocket science.

All a moot point anyway. Schools aren’t locked and they won’t be back as normal in February. Which is a shame but that’s the way it is. No inside knowledge. It’s pretty obvious to anyone capable of critical thinking.

@Spikeyball

"Spikeyball

Masks for ALL wouldn't work because large numbers of those who most need to be in school can't wear masks."

Like who?

Like the vast majority of young people in ds's special school for a start. Children who have been attending throughout lockdown due to being considered vulnerable.

I'm sure most would agree that SEN schools would be exempt from mandatory masks. I'm a TA in a SEN school and no students would tolerate wearing a mask. Staff can wear in certain situations but generally not in the classrooms. We are now being prioritised for the vaccination as our borough has classed us as healthcare workers.

For mainstream schools the majority of children 7+, should be capable of wearing them if required.

@Spikeyball

"Spikeyball

Masks for ALL wouldn't work because large numbers of those who most need to be in school can't wear masks."

Like who?

Like the vast majority of young people in ds's special school for a start. Children who have been attending throughout lockdown due to being considered vulnerable.

True.