Can we unlock the schools at start of Feb?

[MeandT]

I'm totally supportive of the lockdown BUT by the end of next week, case numbers nationally will be the same as they were at end of November. Hospital admissions are falling again.

Rather than going back into tiers with the shops and food pubs open (where all the spreading happened in December), can we not issue all the teachers with N95 masks (and vaccines for the clinically vulnerable), make all the kids wear triple layer face masks all the time, and just get on with the important job of educating this country's kids in person? Starting again 1st of Feb.

AIBU to ask if we can send the kids back as soon as we hit the case rate we unlocked at on 2nd December?

IABU= no way, the cases will shoot up too quickly again, even if they all wear masks all day.

IANBU = yes, get them back before half term, the only reason it went nuts in December was because everyone was out Christmas shopping and seeing family.

@noblegiraffe But infection rates in school age kids came down during the November lockdown. Which shows they do respond to the impact of wider society restrictions. Once a more transmissible variant was kicking around early December, the rates shot up in schools. Because schools are the ONLY place people are still allowed to get together indoors in large groups (typically 30, but with loads of cross-bubbling) with no social distancing and no masks.

So we need to do something differently in schools, in a regional controlled trial, to assess what impact those measures have on reducing transmission rates before they all reopen nationally.

Rather than just going on the telly and saying it will all be fine in schools and crossing fingers behind backs, as if that would somehow magic the science of a respiratory virus moving around in, ummmm, classroom air!

Interesting article - evidence from scientists to the select committee.

Schools reflect but do not drive community transmission, vaccinating teachers is not part of the get kids back to school plan and there is likely to be a regional approach to opening.

Essentially schools will open when cases and hospital admissions come down and they will be the first to open.

That's all anyone knows.

schoolsweek.co.uk/covid-19-nine-things-we-learned-from-scientists-at-education-committee/?mc_cid=f0ed556937

Yes, public health should be looking at what is driving spread. But I’m assuming that before all adults are vaccinated it will still be undesirable to have children crowded in classrooms.

The implications for child mental health, education and safeguarding increase as time goes on though. A good chunk of these can be mitigated if there is outdoor schooling. And I don’t believe most children are accessing the curriculum fully remotely anyway, so it’s looking for least-bad options.

But infection rates in school age kids came down during the November lockdown. Which shows they do respond to the impact of wider society restrictions.

Well of course. Just because secondary kids are mostly catching it at school it doesn’t mean they all are. Some are catching it in the community.

The November lockdown had a much lesser impact on them than other age groups.

So we need to do something differently in schools, in a regional controlled trial, to assess what impact those measures have on reducing transmission rates before they all reopen nationally.

Or we could look internationally? It’s not like we have to reinvent the wheel.

Schools were rampant with the virus when they were open. DCs not getting their education atm is crap, but so is the economy - people losing their jobs, hospitals at breaking point, everyone’s life’s on hold. No situation is better than anyone else’s. I wish people would stop whinging and just get on with what we have to do. Would you rather restrictions lifted too early again and we yo yo back and forth into lockdown all this year?

[quote 2fallsagain]Interesting article - evidence from scientists to the select committee.

Schools reflect but do not drive community transmission, vaccinating teachers is not part of the get kids back to school plan and there is likely to be a regional approach to opening.

Essentially schools will open when cases and hospital admissions come down and they will be the first to open.

That's all anyone knows.

schoolsweek.co.uk/covid-19-nine-things-we-learned-from-scientists-at-education-committee/?mc_cid=f0ed556937[/quote]
Hadn’t heard about this. Thanks
Looks like more information than we’ve had for a bit, will read properly later

Interesting article - evidence from scientists to the select committee.

No one can figure out why these scientists kept referring to widely debunked and out of date evidence and why they weren’t picked up on it. They were apparently unaware of the SAGE Christmas report fgs.

I work for a company that has covid screens between all the desks in the offices and everyone wears masks if they're not sat down at their desk and 6 people currently have covid, 2 of which are really ill. If masks and Perspex screens doesn't stop the spread between adults then kids in school have no chance.

Majority of people never use so much of what is taught at school, Macbeth? Crop rotation? The tudors and Henry VIII. Kids can miss some learning. It's not going to do them any harm. And i say that as the parent of a year 11 who missed some of his mocks due to illness.

1st of Feb? My Sons school has has to shut done for the last 10days to all KW and vulnerable children

Worst bloody idea. All that would happen is we would have to lockdown again!

@noblegiraffe

Interesting article - evidence from scientists to the select committee.

No one can figure out why these scientists kept referring to widely debunked and out of date evidence and why they weren’t picked up on it. They were apparently unaware of the SAGE Christmas report fgs.

Where has that been reported?

Wow, that is us 4 them don't even want screens in place!!.
I'm astonished 😲

I can't believe it!

Happiness, it could be the loo? The kettle? The office sponge... 20 years old and re used without proper sterilisation.

Do you honestly think teachers can teach in an N95 mask? Because I can barely hear my colleagues in FFP3s who are less than 2m away let alone at the back of a rowdy classroom. Are we going to fit test teachers?

And whose going to make sure children are wearing triple masks? Who's going to help the 4 year olds replace their masks after blowing their nose/drinking/eating?

Tbh I think its quite frankly ridiculous. Yes cases maybe going down, but at the end of November cases were still pretty high and tbh we should have locked down schools sooner.

Its basic common sense that schools are going to spread covid. More than work places, because youve got wider mixing of families. You've got 1000 families all interconnected. Didnt Boris even say the other day the 2m distancing inside in unlikely to be enough?

On I'm not, they don't even want the fucking windows open.

Complete and utter arseholes.

As a TA I would rather they didn't fully open until they make schools safe or give me the vaccine.
I am a parent of primary and secondary age kids. My kids missed loads of schooling in the autumn term due to outbreaks in their schools. There is no point sending kids back if they don't put done safety measures in schools to stop COVID rapidly spreading between kids.
Many of my TA colleagues are grandparents. None of us feels schools are safe, we would like some protection.

@noblegiraffe "Or we could look internationally? It’s not like we have to reinvent the wheel."

Agreed, although we do seem to have a particularly strong strain of 'allaboutme-ism' running through society in the UK which means the uptake of really basic public health measures to reduce transmission is substantially lower than in other countries who have tackled schooling as a priority over pubs! That probably needs to be allowed for from parents whose precious darlings couldn't possibly get through a 6 hour day with a face covering on

*FightingFiles But the people that are dying this week are dying as a result of the restrictions in place (or not) in the week before and after Christmas. The date to have locked down to make a difference was 18th December. That's when it should have happened.

Making decisions based on today's data is always several weeks out of phase. That's why we need to consider school reopening ahead of a significant fall in the daily death rate*

Im.a nurse and my partner's a teacher. I'm really over all the death now, and I really don't want my boyfriend to die.

Stats show teachers are 330% more likely to contract the virus. His school is KWC only and two teachers have gone down this week, one is already extremely ill.

Schools need to stay shut until there is some semblance of control, I'm sorry people are bored of looking after their own kids, but that's just how it is. Tough for everyone.

And now as well as being tired I'm annoyed my italics didn't work.

Agreed, although we do seem to have a particularly strong strain of 'allaboutme-ism' running through society in the UK which means the uptake of really basic public health measures to reduce transmission is substantially lower than in other countries who have tackled schooling as a priority over pubs!

Where’s that from?

I wonder if you’ve spent too much time listening to Priti Patel.

After Easter is more realistic IMO.

I agree that teachers (and any adults working with children in schools) should get priority for the vaccine, once the elderly and vulnerable have been offered it.

Though it could be a good idea for secondary school pupils to wear masks, I can't really see masks working in primary schools.

@Yearbook76

I think the way schools were reopened last September was completely reckless I think the priority needs to be on making schools safe rather than reopening

I agree. We need safe schools. This pandemic is a disaster for the children. It’s less about lost learning and more about the social interaction.

@dishedup I disagree that schools are worse than workplaces. In ours bubbles are 60..ok there is the interconnected bit you mention as they have siblings but the teachers can be very strict with the kids in the way you can't in a workplace. Workplaces can't insist people wash their hands on demand, they're rarely ventilated if not really stale air and poor cleaning. If you feel under the weather no-one will call your mum to collect you and insist you don't return for 2 weeks. Even with a screen, you can still cough at your desk and particles are in the air - they only really help if you're face to face and for a short time. Plus adults still go out for a smoke, share a bus etc. They also have a higher viral load when infected.

I know far, far more people that have caught covid in offices. There have been no cases at my son's school.

Give me the choice between working in a primary school or working in a call centre during covid and I would 100% choose the school.

keep schools until after Easter but shorten the summer holidays to increase teaching hrs

@whattodo2019

keep schools until after Easter but shorten the summer holidays to increase teaching hrs

Are you proposing school staff are paid extra for those extra hours?