Why do nhs admin staff need the vaccine before teachers?

[BrutusMcDogface]

Just that.

I really want to understand why someone who works in an office, away from any patients (and doesn’t even have to go through any corridors that patients will have gone through) get through vaccine, when teachers/school staff don’t?

Of course I don’t begrudge nhs staff their vaccine; absolutely on the contrary. But why aren’t teachers/school staff somewhere on the priority list? Particularly those who are working with children with SEND; all vulnerable, many of whom need personal care.

Please help me to understand.

There is definitely a lot of what another poster has termed ‘vaccine envy.’

Very unattractive.

I'd guess the reason is they could come in contact with frontline staff, and also use same facilities.

There seems to be a lot of oh why can't such and such have it before such and such. Seems a lot of jealousy.

By the same argument support staff in schools shouldn't get vaccinated when schools do

But wait. That's would be impractical, they also often have contact with pupils, and would leave the school unable to operate

Same thing really....

Can you imagine the uproar if schools suddenly had to identify lists of those staff that are away from any pupils (and don’t even have to go through any corridors that pupils will have gone through) vs those that do. Another u-turn, another load on head teachers, infighting as teachers WFH and TAs are in classrooms, arguments that if admin person A in IT is sick then the whole remote teaching is at risk even if they see no pupils, cleaning staff who are not directly employed but at much greater risk not being included etc etc etc.

Or would it be ok to just give blanket approval for everyone to be jabbed?

That’s what the NHS is doing but on a massively greater scale. And in most places are achieving the prioritisation.

Administration teams do a very important job. Take GP surgeries for example. If one receptionist caught covid and passed it on to the rest of her team, imagine the chaos that would cause if they all had to go home and isolate?

@sleepwouldbenice

By the same argument support staff in schools shouldn't get vaccinated when schools do

But wait. That's would be impractical, they also often have contact with pupils, and would leave the school unable to operate

Same thing really....

I think most people who have an issue with it are talking about NHS non clinical workers who are working from home, so not in contact with patients. Whereas school support staff are in contact with the children as much as the teachers are

Because we would fall apart without our admins and they are as much a part of the team as the rest of us. Simple.

I think hospitals are real breeding grounds for covid and that anyone who has to enter one daily should be priority. And then for sure, teachers should be priority as well as the police.

At our Trust ECV staff first, then other clinical staff, then admin. The clinical staff included community nursing, care home staff, palliative care, mental health. 1000s and 1000s of people.

We absolutely need admin staff to be able to function. We have electronic notes systems these days in most places and admin have to register the patient on the system or no-one can read or write in their notes. Who will handle referrals? Answer the phone all day to relatives and others calling?

When we've had ward outbreaks where staff were infected our admin staff caught it and were ill too. They probably caught it from infected staff! They are just as much at risk.

I think the problem is @Reinventinganna that the vaccination programme has been pushed as a priority for those who are more likely to get it and those more likely to become very ill and take up a hospital bed, I haven't heard anything about prioritising workers who's jobs are vital as well. Or has that been said? I think it's a valid point but doesn't feel widely understood

I think those saying it's jealousy etc, maybe it is? We're not talking about something like who's got the best car/going on the best holiday, we're talking about life and death. Of course people want their vaccine ASAP!

I'm a CV worker in a nursery, am I jealous hearing that a non clinical working from home NHS worker has got their vaccine ahead of me, of course I am! Maybe that makes me a bad person.. I don't think it does

I agree teachers should be prioritised, but admin staff are vital. Try keeping any business going for more than a day without admin!

Our admin staff are not wfh. They can't answer the phone from home which is a very key function to preserve clinical staff time.

Last time our ward admin was sick we were deluged with angry relatives, other wards, community staff etc having to go via the Trust headquarters because no-one answered the phone all morning as the very few staff we had left were caring for our patients.

My Trust are not making a priority list but expect everyone to be done within 3 weeks.

It's wrong to think that admin staff sit on their own, ticked away in their own buildings. Many are in the fronting on reception desks, others have dwight contact and wirk in the same areas as clinical staff. Going through a list of thousands of staff to compile a priority list, during a pandemic, is a ridiculous waste of time, and that time is better spent on just getting on and vaccinating people.

@bookmarket

My Trust are not making a priority list but expect everyone to be done within 3 weeks.

It's wrong to think that admin staff sit on their own, ticked away in their own buildings. Many are in the fronting on reception desks, others have dwight contact and wirk in the same areas as clinical staff. Going through a list of thousands of staff to compile a priority list, during a pandemic, is a ridiculous waste of time, and that time is better spent on just getting on and vaccinating people.

I'll try that again

It's wrong to think that admin staff sit on their own, tucked away in their own buildings. Many are in the frontline on reception desks, others have direct contact and work in the same areas as clinical staff.

it is THE most difficult time in the NHS at the moment.
yet you begrudge staff a vaccine.?

@WhitechapelLass

Can you imagine the uproar if schools suddenly had to identify lists of those staff that are away from any pupils (and don’t even have to go through any corridors that pupils will have gone through) vs those that do. Another u-turn, another load on head teachers, infighting as teachers WFH and TAs are in classrooms, arguments that if admin person A in IT is sick then the whole remote teaching is at risk even if they see no pupils, cleaning staff who are not directly employed but at much greater risk not being included etc etc etc.

Or would it be ok to just give blanket approval for everyone to be jabbed?

That’s what the NHS is doing but on a massively greater scale. And in most places are achieving the prioritisation.

Makes so much sense. Thank you.

My DP works on IT for NHS.... he spent the whole weekend in the mass vaccination centre supporting the it system and helping the users, most of whom had not used the system before, so that they could vax 1000 people per day. He probably came into contact with more people than anyone else... from healthcare asssist to nurses, doctors and patients and families

I think you have the wrong idea about what 'admin' staff do in the nhs.., they don't sit in an office far away from everyone else!

Yep I'm nhs admin and I'm going to be right there in the mass vaccination clinic. I think I need one...

The point of the vaccine priority is to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed

It will be overwhelmed for 2 reasons

1. Huge amount of older people sick with COVID being admitted to hospital
2. Staff being off sick with COVID or self isolating unable to do their jobs and that includes admin staff.

We don't know that being vaccinated stops you transmitting the virus. But we do know that it stops you getting very ill with it. Staff will still have to wear PPE after being fully vaccinated.
The point of vaccinating staff is therefore to stop them getting ill and being off work and not to stop them giving it to vulnerable people

The reason schools are shut is to stop children giving COVID to their families. Vaccinating teachers is good for teachers but does not stop children spreading it in schools and therefore would not make them more likely to reopen. I have nothing at all against teachers and would like to see them vaccinated for their own sakes but the reason schools are shut is not due to lack of staff.

No, the staff were told to consider their conscious if they dont think they should book just yet, but where i work we have now been told all staff are free to book, i do hope that is ok with the rest of the country, and i am sad and shocked that people are begrudging of this

@frustrationcentral

I think the problem is *@Reinventinganna* that the vaccination programme has been pushed as a priority for those who are more likely to get it and those more likely to become very ill and take up a hospital bed, I haven't heard anything about prioritising workers who's jobs are vital as well. Or has that been said? I think it's a valid point but doesn't feel widely understood

I think those saying it's jealousy etc, maybe it is? We're not talking about something like who's got the best car/going on the best holiday, we're talking about life and death. Of course people want their vaccine ASAP!

I'm a CV worker in a nursery, am I jealous hearing that a non clinical working from home NHS worker has got their vaccine ahead of me, of course I am! Maybe that makes me a bad person.. I don't think it does

The nub of the crisis at the moment is the mismatch between the number of patients the NHS has, and the number of staff the NHS has to treat them. If there are more patients than we can treat then we do things like reducing nurse to patient ratios, which isn't good for anyone.

You can make that mismatch worse in two ways: by increasing the number of patients, or reducing the number of staff.

So we attack the problem in two ways. By vaccinating those most likely to become patients (the 80+) and by protecting the staff so fewer of them become sick.

That includes admin staff. They are also working in the hospital, around patients, and at high risk of going off sick. If they do go off sick, who does their job? Me. Our nurses. Other clinicians. Who are then tied up answering calls from relatives and making sure cupboards are stocked, and so not treating patients.

So admin going down draws staff away from clinical care, and increases the mismatch between how many need treatment, and how many we are able to care for properly.

The NHS wouldn't be able to function without it's admin staff, then we'd all be fucked. Teachers are monumentally important but not quite as important as making sure the NHS can do their job right now.

@cushioncovers

Because if there is no admin staff working in the Nhs it's fucking chaos.

This. Two members of my family, within two days, turned up for appointments that had been moved to earlier dates or cancelled with no notification. I gather lots of admin staff are off sick. We need them back working to save wasted, expensive, appointments. One of the moved slots was for a CT scan.

I think it depends what the vaccines purpose is. If it does not stop you catching it, but lessens the impact it has if you do catch it, so you still are off work isolating if you do, then of course non-frontline staff should not be getting it before ecv people.

I'm admin and have a vaccine appointment booked next week. All the reasons given above. I had one day off last week and in that 2 operations were cancelled because of people not wanting to come in. Luckily another admin stepped in and found people to take the spaces otherwise that would have been 2 theatre slots sat empty at a time when waiting lists are longer than ever.

I also think it is in a bid to make hospitals more COVID secure. A lot of infections at the moment are happening in hospitals and when people are already weakened they could do without catching that on top. The more staff are vaccinated, the slower the spread to vulnerable people who need hospital treatment.

I also would love for teachers and emergency services to be high on the list. But me turning down my vaccine won't change that. And we are being encouraged to post 'I've had my vaccine' to raise confidence and hopefully help increased uptake.