Vaccinations and nepotism

[Mintypylonsfryingsurplus]

Obviously most of us want the vaccination and an end to this nightmare.
But I am aware of several people that have jumped the queue.
1st family Son works in GP surgery in non patient admin role 44 slight asthma never shielded worked throughout. Got vaccine due to leftovers. Great in a way as vaccines should never be wasted. Then got his Mum and stepdad a vaccine (late 60's no health conditions) a vaccine also. Yes they are older but live 32 miles from the surgery so not their surgery and drove a considerable distance. Was told to be there by 4pm in the am of that day.
I thought surely local people who use that surgery should be prioritised especially health care or other frontline workers?
Ok I thought just a one off.
Then one of my DH friend aged 39 again works in surgery occasionally covers reception through a glass booth/ appointment only got the vaccine too. Her partner again about 12 miles but a different county away aged 41 works from home got vaccinated a week later.
They were foolish enough to put on fb (now taken down) as some people were understandably a bit pissed off with this. Comments such as who you know, driving long way not in spirit of lockdown to the outraged as many elderly/ frail/ frontline still patiently in queue.
I am not judging as those that want it will get it eventually, and no vaccine should be wasted, I am just wondering if this is quite common to others too?
It does seem divisive?

@Oblahdeeoblahdoe

Owner of a large nursing home 'employs' her 16 and 18 year old DC doing odd jobs in the holidays etc. You've guessed it, they've both been vaccinated as part of the workforce, what a bloody cheek!

I'm because it is not licensed for under 18s. So administering it would be illegal wouldn't it?

Better than wastage. Some people are never happy. Every person who gets a jab is one step closer for all of us to normal life again. Can't believe anyone would want a jab binned

I wasn't referring to the under 18s when I said better than wastage just the random adults btw

Can't anything be managed properly? Infuriating to hear 60% of over 80s were still to be done the other day. I read that some areas in the country are being told to slow down as they have done all the over 80s and ready to start on over 70s.. Does no thought go into supplying the more populated areas with more vaccines? Seems not.

@lentilsforlunch

Better than wastage. Some people are never happy. Every person who gets a jab is one step closer for all of us to normal life again. Can't believe anyone would want a jab binned

Some people would rather no one gets something than someone other than them.

I'll be way way down the vaccine list but I'm happy for it to get rolled out to others.

They aren’t jumping the queue though, they are getting a vaccine that would otherwise have been wasted. Better that than it thrown down the sink.

@Mintypylonsfryingsurplus

No not elderly people in the cold but health care workers/ others who have no choice but to go to work out of their home. Who can also get there quickly not hours of notice. No one likes waste but it should be regulated much better so abuse of the system does not occur

I can’t imagine the surgery staff have the time to ring loads of patients to find some who fit that criteria. They’re run off their feet as it is.

If you know 6 hours earlier you are going to have a spare then phone someone on the surgery list who is priority

Do you know that they didn’t?
We’ve been phoning people to be told ‘I can’t come today but next Wednesday will be a good day.......I can’t get a lift.......I’ll wait for the Oxford one.....’ when surgeries are phoning 20 odd people only to be refused wouldn’t it be a better use of time to get people in who are actually wanting it and will turn up so it isn’t wasted?

My mum got a vaccine by being in the right place at the right time. She drove her very elderly neighbour to the vaccine centre, it was early evening and they had doses left so they offered it to her (she is early 70s herself!). She was delighted.

DH and I both work in a hospital, though I am now working from home. I'm still going in to get my jab, even though many would feel I'm not entitled to it as I don't go into the hospital any more. DH has convinced me as he is exposed every day and is really worried he is going to bring it home (no matter how careful he is) and infect me. I'm sure plenty of people are going to think I'm selfish and not entitled to have it. I'm not taking it away from patients though as these have been set aside for staff.

My point was it isnt wastage.
6 hours notice is not wastage just poor organisation and nepotism.
My doctors surgery pre pandemic had a notice on wall 20% of patients failed to turn up for appointments. 3 missed appointments caused you to be asked to leave the surgery.
We are in a pandemic so if you factor maybe 50% of potential no shows you could then have a list of local not 20 odd mile away people in priority.
These people are on standby if 20 of these people do not show by a certain time this then gies to standbys.
The 30 remaining standbys go up the queue and another 20 added underneath.
People who do a no show without good reason have to be put in queue again unless vulnerable.
So if you dont have a car you use your local place sonits fairer. Not driving miles to jump a queue.
There has been months to work this out and sort out lists. Its not rocket science.
The fact so many are saying this is ok is actually quite worrying. I hope there is enough vaccines for us all when its our turn but unless its done properly who knows?
I hate to think that there are such underhanded practices taking place on top of an already terrible winter.

It's better than wastage. It would be better though for each site to contact over-60s and CEV to identify who can get there quickly into a wait-list, or to have a list of local police officers, firefighters, supermarkets and schools, then work steadily through those groups.

I know some of these too but if it's genuinely that or waste the vaccine, I still think it's better.

This is an incredible effort being done at breakneck speed. It's not going to be done entirely ideally. Are we going to wait weeks while policy makers dictate protocols that fit every conceivable scenario or are we going to get as many left over doses in arms as possible?

I've a friend who is a gp. I'm CEV. Am I going to get upset if he offers any leftovers to his family and vulnerable friends and not me? Nope. I'll be jolly delighted that he can feel that out of all of this shit show they can gain some comfort that their loved ones have some protection. I would be really happy for them.

So much for not judging, hey OP

You’re talking about a lot of extra admin, it’s just not practical OP. Vaccines are not a finite resource either - we’re not going to run out. You’re worrying needlessly.

We have a ridiculous over order of vaccines for the country. So yes, there will be enough for everyone in the end.

My cousin had hers last week. She's a manager in the NHS. Has been wfh since March. 36. No health issues

@MRex exactly if they can ring friends and family why not patients?
A perk of the job maybe? The fact that many healthcare etc workers feel a bit bitter due to the way they have been unsupported during this pandemic apart from a bit of clapping?
Maybe its just each man for himself now? Better organisation in the first place would have meant this wasnt happening but reading through this is actually quite widespread which us what I suspected as my world is quite small so to know two seperate households quite surprising.

These people are on standby if 20 of these people do not show by a certain time this then gies to standbys.
The 30 remaining standbys go up the queue and another 20 added underneath

Who is going to be free to make all those phone calls? Also, patients are told not to attend early, as there isn’t the space when people have to wait for 15 mins post vaccination. Who is going to field all the calls from patients calling to say “has anyone not turned up? Can I come now? 50 times a day.

Ok so when the surgeries have exhausted the friends and families lists, do they start throwing them away then? This arguement just doesnt hold up even the most popular person will run out of a perks list?
Do they get chucked then? Or will they have to organise phonecalls? I call BS

Can't get het up about it. If it's there going begging and it's easy and means vaccine won't have to be chucked then it makes sense to use it... I'm a care home manager and a shocking percentage of my team have turned the vaccine down because they are scared they are going to be microchipped or some such rubbish...and I know that's a common issue across social care-so frankly I say give it people that (sensibly) want it.

[quote Mintypylonsfryingsurplus]@MRex exactly if they can ring friends and family why not patients?
A perk of the job maybe? The fact that many healthcare etc workers feel a bit bitter due to the way they have been unsupported during this pandemic apart from a bit of clapping?
Maybe its just each man for himself now? Better organisation in the first place would have meant this wasnt happening but reading through this is actually quite widespread which us what I suspected as my world is quite small so to know two seperate households quite surprising.[/quote]
@Mintypylonsfryingsurplus at our PCN, for the over 80s we had to call around 2000 patients in order to fill 975 slots. We had a lot of "I'm not sure", "I want to wait a while", "I don't think anyone can bring me", "I want to wait for the British vaccine". One of our admin team took a day to get 50 slots booked. We were one of the first to get the vaccine in December. It was slow and painful. Do you genuinely think we've got the time and resources to do this every had? We haven't been told we can drop any other work for this. As we move down the groups to younger populations I think the process will speed up and we'll be able to use online booking for younger people that the over 80s couldn't cope but in the meantime we need to avoid wastage and get jabs in arms asap.

Most places only have less than 5 leftover vaccines (6 doses in each vial, at least for Pfizer) that may potentially get wasted. It would be a logistical and data protection nightmare to openly call for a "stand-by list" where hundreds if not thousands of people will sign up with their personal contact details. It'd effectively be like running a vaccine lottery that gets people's hopes up when they realistically have 1:1000 or whatever chance of being called in. It makes more sense for the doctors administering the vaccines to decide at their discretion who gets leftover doses.

The majority of standby vaccines have been offered to other doctors, medical staff or close family members. I think anyone who has not lived in close proximity to doctors, dentists or nurses this year have no right to judge those who risked their lives every day to keep vital treatment going. All those furloughed or working safe & comfortably from home with punctual grocery deliveries cannot begin to understand what kind of hell frontline workers and their families have been through this past year.

Instead of bleating about "nepotism" maybe spare a thought that getting a stand-by vaccine is a reward for those who have braved this virus every day while the rest of the world hid from it. Yes, vaccinating family members might be a degree unfair, but it might also be the greatest wish of a doctor who wants to see his wife or parents protected as well. Again, the amount of jabs being offered last-minute is extremely small and ones what would have to be binned otherwise.