I know more people who've committed suicide than I do who've died of Covid

[BagsOFr]

4 people (not all friends but people I know from around my area) have now committed suicide, one being the brother of a friend. I know multiple more who've gone missing after a MH crisis and been found thankfully alive.

AIBU to think there HAS to have a massive overhaul of the MH services in this country after this shit show? This can't be allowed to go on silently. I know everyone is very focused on Covid and I appreciate why, but I don't know a single person who's died from Covid and yet here I am, seeing another person who's taken their own life because of this situation. It seems to be such a bigger issue than anyone wants to admit.

Has to be**

That's absolutely awful. I'm so sorry for their families and friends.

I know 3 people who've died of Covid and no people who've committed suicide since last January.

All suicides are appalling, and yes the mental health system needs to be improved. Anecdotal evidence is just that, though.

It's very sad that people have taken their own lives, and there definitely doe need to be better mental health help inbthis country. But I don't know what that has to do with you personally not knowing anyone who's died of covid. What does that have to do with anything? It HAS happened.... 86 thousand and something?? In less than a year. From something that is contagious. That's why we have had restrictions.

I'm not suggesting it hasn't happened, not at all.

I'm saying it seems MH crisis is such a huge issue right now that lots of people seem to be ignoring and not talking about.

I know more people who’ve died of suicide than anything else but that’s probably because my social life relied upon bipolar support groups for decades.

MH services are appalling.
Sibling was actively suicidal, spent several hours phoning the crisis team every hour and kept getting told they will call back. They did eventually call to say as they were now closing and there wasn’t anyone who could assess and they should go along to a mentor led self help group that starts in 2 hours. Ridiculous as it was 3 days after they had been rushed to A & E after already attempting suicide.
They had previously been assessed after serious episodes of self harm and told they didn’t need any support.
All this was pre Covid so the MH service already needed a serious overhaul.

I hope when all this is over they do a thorough and transparent study into how many people lost their lives due to the impact of Covid rather than Covid itself. At the moment nobody seems to matter unless they test positive. It's absolutely tragic for all those whose essential treatment has been delayed and who have been pushed over the edge by the fallout.

Anecdote is pretty meaningless.

Covid will cause about 100,000 (admittedly elderly) deaths in the U.K. over a year.

The total number of suicides in 2019 was 5,700. Even if it rose 20% due to MH related to lockdown, that would be another 1,000 odd people, so 1% of Covid.

Suicides are all tragic for the individuals concern but, at population level, they are an irrelevance.

It does need a massive overhaul - I agree. Starting with MH provision for children which is hard to access in my experience. However, I don’t think that any overhaul in the NHS will ever be enough to deal with the problems that will come down the line. Not just because of Covid but more broadly, lives are so different now. Mothers and fathers both often work, don’t have as much time for their children as 30 years ago, social media, filming of everything... etc etc.

@BagsOFr

I'm not suggesting it hasn't happened, not at all.

I'm saying it seems MH crisis is such a huge issue right now that lots of people seem to be ignoring and not talking about.

People are not 'ignoring' it, but we have a health service that has been run down to bare bones (thank you v much Conservative governments) and over 35000 in hospital with covid - this is what happens.

If one house is on fire and one is subsiding, you put out the fire first. The NHS can either help the people who will definitely die if they don't, or leave them to die and do normal processes. They can't do both.

I am so sorry for the losses to suicide

But this was predicted - if a second wave came (which health professionals knew it would, the PM just lied again) the NHS would become a covid service. This is the consequence of Johnson's ineptitude and risk-taking.

I agree we need major investment in mental health. This Conservative government will not do it. They'll wave some meaningless number about and try to dupe the public, but nothing will change until the government changes.

@BagsOFr

I'm not suggesting it hasn't happened, not at all.

I'm saying it seems MH crisis is such a huge issue right now that lots of people seem to be ignoring and not talking about.

Everyone is talking about it.

Govt has put more money into MHS & have been talking about it.

Many threads on MN talking about it.

Always mentioned on any Covid thread.

People protesting.

Who do you feel isn't talking about it? What action would you like taken?

I share your concern about lack of focus on MH and how this is a big healthcare crisis.

I don’t think there is anything that can be changed about lockdown because hospitals are overflowing with Covid and we need to avoid a situation where patients die in the street because they can’t get in the hospital.

However financial support, mental health healthcare are urgently needed to take the pressure off some people. I have someone I’m very concerned about. He is refusing all offers of financial help and healthcare however so it’s quite hard to intervene and do anything. He’s very aware of Covid and wishes to avoid contact with people so I’m really not sure what the answer is.

@ArtemisBean

I hope when all this is over they do a thorough and transparent study into how many people lost their lives due to the impact of Covid rather than Covid itself. At the moment nobody seems to matter unless they test positive. It's absolutely tragic for all those whose essential treatment has been delayed and who have been pushed over the edge by the fallout.

This is entirely the wrong way to see things and suggests no understanding of what is happening in the NHS.

Do you think someone who needs ventilation should be left on the street to die so that someone can have cancer surgery instead?

What is your answer to the fact there are too many seriously ill people for our hospitals to treat?

Or are you a covid denier?

I work in a school so have a fairly large sample size and 6 parents of children in our school have now died of Covid and I’ve now lost count of the number of grandparents and other elderly relatives that I’ve heard about. The relatives and friends of our staff and students total many thousands of people so it’s inevitable that there will be plenty of Covid deaths among them.

I’ve not known anyone that has died by suicide in that time. None of that means that there isn’t a severe mental health crisis going on though. I am worried about how drastically the mental health of some young people has declined and I worry about how thinly stretched mental health services are. I think if you’d just written your OP you’d get people engaging with the issue. By using a title that compares the number of suicides to the number of Covid death you’ve known it makes it appear that your post is about that. Clearly your experience is unusual, more people have not died by suicide this year than from Covid, not by a long way. That doesn’t mean that we don’t need to do something about the state of MH services.

Cancer causes 164,000 deaths a year, and the impact of Covid on the NHS may well push that up.
Along with MH one thing is clear, our NHS is not able to cope with the real health needs ( Social need is another huge area) of the UK in the 21st century.
It's time there was a grown-up conversation about how health (and Social) care should be delivered, but sadly that will turn into a childish arguement with a race to the bottom on facts, led by the media and politicians. We only have to look at a recent referendum to see how that happens.

Mental Health services are woefully inadequate and have been totally underfunded for years. It should be a major priority. This is a ticking time bomb for want of a more appropriate phrase.
Equally Covid is obviously a major priority, not only because of the tragic loss of life and long term effects on so many people but because of the huge strain put on the NHS. An NHS which has been buckling under such pressure for so long.
Surely both Covid and mental health services need to be the top of the agenda for this government?

I’m sorry for your losses. People are talking about it. The problem is also ICU beds...if they are full of covid patients how do you treat someone who needs it from a suicide attempt?
There is studies looking at suicide (Uni of Manchester) worldwide and the rates have not dramatically increased in the way you suggest.

Do you think someone who needs ventilation should be left on the street to die so that someone can have cancer surgery instead?

And so we should all be absolutely up in arms that the Govt has allowed the NHS to be so unfit for purpose in the past however long that it has come down to this, rather than making Sarah down the road public enemy number 1 because she had a brew with her Mum.

I see it all the time, on FB, community pages etc... People naming and shaming, posting X and Y about so and so down the road leaving their house twice, 'was that essential travel?' etc...

No wonder people are getting to the point they are when you're publicly hung drawn and quartered for daring to reach out to/see your family or friends.

The data regarding suicide during Covid seems inconclusive and mostly speculative:

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

Surely both Covid and mental health services need to be the top of the agenda for this government?

Not to put too fine a point on it, this conservative government does not give a shit about these things. Many of them want to privatise and move to an insurance model. This may well be seen as an.opportunity to remodel aka destroy the NHS.

The idea that this government with this PM and this Chancellor would care about mental health is a joke.

The Chancellor is desperate to cut the £20/week UC uplift, it is only the less dreadful in his own party holding him back.

@BagsOFr

I'm not suggesting it hasn't happened, not at all.

I'm saying it seems MH crisis is such a huge issue right now that lots of people seem to be ignoring and not talking about.

Are you serious?? All people do is talk about the mental health crisis! It's constantly on the tv, programmes are always talking about it. Soaps are always featuring it, there isn't one famous person who isn't suffering/hasn't suffered from it.

I used to work in a school and so many problems are due to parents ficing their children mobile phones at a young age. The children would take their phones to bed and be at school shattered and depressed, full of anxiety, having been on the phones most of the night. I think the Netflix documentary 'a social dilemma' sums it up well. Remove social media from youngsters and you remove alot of issues.

Same here OP, know more people who died of suicide than COVID this year. It's awful.

Where I live the evidence is that suicide rates went down during lockdown (I’m overseas).

Where are you that the evidence is the opposite?

I’ve lost six friends to suicide since leaving medical school, one just a few days ago. It remains true that I’ve cared for more people who’ve died from covid in that time.

It’s not a competition.

The amount of people who have died with covid related deaths in my area and people who are distantly related to me is crazy and so so sad. Iv never heard of so many people dying in a short period of time id count up to people. Some people i know hav lost both parents who were only around age 50 due to covid.
I dont know anyone who has commited suicide tbh.
Although it is a serious issue. It's hard at the moment, country is trying to get over a pandemic but the situation is peoples mental health is affected. I think even a person who has no history of MH is to an extent affected, especially if thyv lost a loved one. Its a sad situation..

I think studies into the numbers of suicides right now are sort of irrelevant at the moment. It goes further than just the people who've actually committed suicide. And it'll go on for longer than this pandemic. You can't conclusively put a number on it in the same way. There's people who've attempted but haven't, there's people who have suicidal thoughts/feelings, depression, and so on... People who will reach this point further down the line when the effects of this go beyond the immediate threat of Covid, unemployment, recession and so on.