Are supermarkets the problem?

[Thatwentbadly]

Are supermarkets really such a big problem or could it be people who haven’t been following the guidelines who then say I’ve only been to the supermarket who are increasing the number of cases thought to have been caused in the supermarket?

@SirVixofVixHall

Latest zoe study shows that vitamin D makes a negligible difference.

Not really @SirVixofVixHall

Take from the press release:

We found that multivitamins, vitamin D, omega-3, and probiotic supplements all had a small protective effect against testing positive for the virus. We found that multivitamins, vitamin D, omega 3, and probiotic supplements all modestly helped protect women, but we didn’t see the same consistent protective effect for men.

As they go on to point out, it wasn't a clinical trial (so there could be many other factors that have skewed the results). There may have been reporting bias (ie men were less accurate in reporting their regimen), it could be that people that take supplements are more likely to lead a healthy lifestyle or are more concerned about protecting themselves from COVID-19 so are more cautious in other ways. It also doesn't take into account whether participants were deficient in Vitamin D or not as that wasn't tested. It is entirely possible to be deficient even though you are taking a supplement and vice versa. It also doesn't seem to take into account the dosage taken by participants.

As they say:

"Our research is an observational study and not a clinical trial, so it is quite speculative, and we can’t make strong recommendations based on the data we have."

I would say the fact that they found a moderate benefit from taking vitamin D but not other vitamins (eg vitamin C or zinc) is a positive. As there have been several studies (but not all) that have found a link with vitamin D deficiency and COVID-19 risk, I would say that the Zoe study is further evidence that it is worth taking vitamin D supplements. A small benefit is better than none.

The report, like all scientific papers, is written cautiously and is careful not to overstate any findings. The findings of the QMUL clinical trial of high dosage vitamin D will be much more informative.

It’s peoples dim selfish behaviour that’s likely the problem in shops yes. For e.g - I waited till vegetable aisle fairly empty, went in and was stood in front of the salad for a second liking fur right one. A man came directly behind and around me reaching right infront of me so his face ended up inches from mine, just because he couldn’t wait half a minute or so. This happens constantly. Saw same guy doing the same to other shoppers in other aisles. Just zero common sense or awareness from people like this invading personal space is definitely helping keep numbers up.

Ah ok, thank you orange i had listened to his update rather than reading the press release, he said “ a small effect for some women”, the text you have posted sounds more enthusiastic. As I had scarily low vitamin D and so have been taking it religiously for some months I was disappointed when I heard the comments, yours are more hopeful 🙂

I think the biggest problem is still peddling tbf message that you should get a test if you have one of the 3 symptoms, rather than any kind of feeling off. I had to lie to get a test the other day and it's positive. I did have the fever- but a good 8 hours after I'd done the test. No cough, no loss of taste and smell. Still no cough.

Here's an article about the QMUL major global clinical trial that found vitamin D protects against flu and colds. There is a link to the paper in it @SirVixofVixHall

You might want to have a look at papers on antimicrobial/antiviral peptides if you want to understand how it might help.

www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/2017/smd/vitamin-d-protects-against-colds-and-flu-finds-major-global-study.html

My suspicion is the latter. Lots of people claiming they went to the shops, to avoid having to say they went to someone's house. That Welsh bloke however seems quite happy to take it at face value and say that means supermarkets are spreading covid. Good luck with the food supply in Wales then!

@MercyBooth

There is a very disturbing undercurrent to the blame rhetoric here. And they swore that after the AIDS epidemic lessons had been learned about shame and blame.

Thus is spot on. Being shamed and losing money for getting ill is the best way of fuelling infections.

@Bitbusyattheminute

Dh and me have tested positive within 2 days of each other.

He goes to work, but all temp taking/ masks etc and don't think that would explain why I am exactly 2 days behind him.

Or
I went to supermarket on sat Have we both caught it differently?

Or
Kids have been isolating since middle of last week. Have they been asym and we caught it from them?

It could be either. But if I could place a bet it would be on the kids.

At the start of lockdown when supermarkets were limiting people in and had one way system I would say no. However now its turned back into a free for all I do think it is spreading there.

I work in a supermarket. It's been fine since the beginning in terms of cases in staff members. A few isolating in the beginning etc but I think 3/4 positive cases throughout. Now is a different story though. There's more people off with positive cases and isolating than I can count on 2 hands. We are all being asked to be tested every 3/4 days (there's no symptom testing centres where I am)

We are all being asked to be tested every 3/4 days (there's no symptom testing centres where I am)

This is interesting, are you in England? Are the tests provided by the supermarket?

worldbarbie We're blaming the kids too.

@tatutata

My suspicion is the latter. Lots of people claiming they went to the shops, to avoid having to say they went to someone's house. That Welsh bloke however seems quite happy to take it at face value and say that means supermarkets are spreading covid. Good luck with the food supply in Wales then!

There are several small shops near us - I'm in wales - today was the first time since April they've had queues to get into the food ones - tesco met had a huge queue.

Slightly further away I've queue for bigger stores since then but not smaller corner style local ones. Tesco met now has red and green lights outside as well.

Aslo first time since introduced had problem getting a slot for same or next day Amazon Morrison on-line order.

I wondered if it was the Welsh Minister's announcements having an effect.

I think supermarkets are part of the problem as it’s an indoor space with lots of people and it’s one of only a few shops open at the moment to some people it’s their chance for their family to ‘get out’ for a few hours. There are also people who have covid and are not self isolating ie they’re still going out to the supermarket. Also people don’t wear face masks correctly, pulling them down once inside the supermarket or not wearing a mask altogether. There is also a lack of hand sanitiser once inside the supermarket and some people are too lazy to sanitize products once they get home. I’ve done this from start, along with adhering to social distancing, wearing PPE, showering once home from the hospital, washing/sanitising my hands, parcels and products from the supermarket are sanitised before I open them/put them into cupboards which has meant that despite working with 40+ Covid positive patients 5-6 days a week I have never had covid symptoms, lateral flow results are negative as well as swab results.

I have to say I'm not surprised. Hence why I'm not totally sure shutting retail is the answer! If people now need pants, light bulbs, envelopes......etc etc then you are going to have to go to a supermarket. However, if retail was open but with queue management you would spread the load of where people are.

@covetingthepreciousthings yeah in England. The tests are NHS they're part of the mass testing scheme.

@covetingthepreciousthings and to add it's not the supermarket asking. Our local council has asked that all key workers get tested at the symptom free centres every 3/4 days.

I think more likely transmission is coming from workplaces. Was also coming from schools back in Dec, that's how I caught it - my daughter brought it home.

Yes supermarkets are busy and it will be possible but there would (as someone said I think) be reports of hundreds of supermarket staff being infected if they were that unsafe.

They said yesterday that hospitals and workplaces were the highest areas re transmission last week. My husband's job is in a field where he's had to physically go out to work and do go from site to site since May, and he has seen LOTS of unsafe workplaces.
The govt ignore that obviously and just blame us 'naughty public' for not sticking to the rules

You don't need to sanitise your shopping, @England101. Totally unnecessary.

"I saw some stats from PHE a while back which suggested that there was a high proportion of people reporting that they had been in a supermarket prior to having been tested positive"

The fact that people go to the supermarket before getting infected does not mean they are the cause of infection. My local supermarkets have had only a handful of cases despite being open throughout. This may change with the new variant.

I think if you collected statistics most people who have contracted any infectious disease will have been to the toilet in the 24 hours before. That doesn't mean they got infected by a toilet seat.

My aunt (who is a bit of a Covid denier) makes a point of going to several supermarkets a day, carpet shops etc. She picks up her friend and it's a bit of a jolly. She sees herself as a bit of a rebel who likes to "stick two fingers up to Covid". Bear in mind we were also T4 previously.

She was ill this week (bearing in mind she's in her 70s and had cancer twice) with cold, shivers etc. I asked her to get tested, but because she plays down Covid, she said she had a cold and would take a couple of paracetamol.
She was ill for a couple of days, refused to test and is now back up Asda, Morrisons and Tesco, possibly spreading Covid.

@fastandthecurious

I work in a supermarket. It's been fine since the beginning in terms of cases in staff members. A few isolating in the beginning etc but I think 3/4 positive cases throughout. Now is a different story though. There's more people off with positive cases and isolating than I can count on 2 hands. We are all being asked to be tested every 3/4 days (there's no symptom testing centres where I am)

Yes, I've found the same in our store. I was off in March with suspected covid along with a few others but since then there's been hardly any cases. Just recently it seems to have taken off again and there's more and more staff off, either positive or isolating. Hearsay i know, but from what I've heard this seems to be a trend in a lot of other nearby stores as well.

I know a coupe of people who have had it recently and I absolutely trust that they have not been breaking the rules and that the only place they have been is the supermarket

I wonder if people are touching more things (guilty here too). I know in ld1, I wouldn't pick anything up unless I was actually going to buy it, but I think think I've slipped a bit.

@middleager

My aunt (who is a bit of a Covid denier) makes a point of going to several supermarkets a day, carpet shops etc. She picks up her friend and it's a bit of a jolly. She sees herself as a bit of a rebel who likes to "stick two fingers up to Covid". Bear in mind we were also T4 previously.

She was ill this week (bearing in mind she's in her 70s and had cancer twice) with cold, shivers etc. I asked her to get tested, but because she plays down Covid, she said she had a cold and would take a couple of paracetamol.
She was ill for a couple of days, refused to test and is now back up Asda, Morrisons and Tesco, possibly spreading Covid.

Well she wont be spreading it now because the infectious phase is just after infection and a few days after. But dont let that get in the way of your anecdote.