Are supermarkets the problem?

[Thatwentbadly]

Are supermarkets really such a big problem or could it be people who haven’t been following the guidelines who then say I’ve only been to the supermarket who are increasing the number of cases thought to have been caused in the supermarket?

99% certain we got it from a supermarket as hadn't been anywhere else or seen anyone!

@Thatwentbadly

Are supermarkets really such a big problem or could it be people who haven’t been following the guidelines who then say I’ve only been to the supermarket who are increasing the number of cases thought to have been caused in the supermarket?

Thats illogical. If they were the issue the staff would be the first to catch it as they are there every day with all customers going through. There would be clusters and the commonality would be the fact they worked in supermarkets. I dont want to sound rude but this sort of dumb thinking makes things hard for everyone. The virus is airborne and infection happens in close contact for over 15 minutes in a confined space. How would a supermarket be any of that?????

@NoOneOwnsTheRainbow

I've yet to see more than a couple of supermarket staff wearing face coverings. Yet they're always the first to be really nasty about other people not wearing them. And they're still not routinely cleaning their checkout conveyors between customers.

Why would they clean the checkouts? Its not spread from touch its a droplet spread virus, airborne mainly. Unless you are licking the belt?

I do think having the NHS hour at the start of the day in supermarkets probably doesn't help - the people on the frontlines then touch everything that will be touched all day

There is a very disturbing undercurrent to the blame rhetoric here. And they swore that after the AIDS epidemic lessons had been learned about shame and blame.

@MercyBooth

There is a very disturbing undercurrent to the blame rhetoric here. And they swore that after the AIDS epidemic lessons had been learned about shame and blame.

Agree 100 per cent. Blame is fuelled by stupidity and fear.

@hellojim is that right? The supermarket I work in has it as policy that staff have to wear them. I thought it was the law staff had to wear masks? If not it's no wonder there's an outbreak there. There hasn't been one case where I work thank goodness but it is always a worry working in a supermarket.

Supermarket staff deserve nothing but support. They are doing a fabulous job in really difficult circumstances

My friends whole family had it no-one had been anywhere other than my friend who had been to the supermarket.

I've seen some pretty grim behaviour in our local supermarkets pre-Covid, so it wouldn't surprise me if people weren't socially distancing inside them now.

Where I live, it's not common to drive to the shops, so if you're shopping in person (and especially if you live by yourself and/or you're disabled), you'll need to make multiple trips each week to be able to physically carry all you need. I imagine that doesn't help.

I agree OP, from those that I’ve spoken to, when they say they’ve not been anywhere except the supermarket, don’t really mean that. They conveniently ‘forget’ just nipping in for a cup of tea while dropping something off at a friends, standing chatting away for half and hour outside just a foot between with someone, that they let their kids out on a sleepover...etc. Very few will admit to having close contact outside of their household. My own parents denied it to my (virtual) face despite me seeing a photo of them in someone else’s living room 🧐

@Missfelipe

I agree OP, from those that I’ve spoken to, when they say they’ve not been anywhere except the supermarket, don’t really mean that. They conveniently ‘forget’ just nipping in for a cup of tea while dropping something off at a friends, standing chatting away for half and hour outside just a foot between with someone, that they let their kids out on a sleepover...etc. Very few will admit to having close contact outside of their household. My own parents denied it to my (virtual) face despite me seeing a photo of them in someone else’s living room 🧐

This is bang on. Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Most people will have been to a shop or supermarket in any given week. So most people who test positive will have been to a shop or supermarket recently.

That doesn't mean that's where most people are picking up the infection. And we're not seeing significant patterns of people or staff shopping or working in the same supermarkets all testing positive.

The main transmission of cases is in care homes, hospitals and workplaces.

No I really don't think they are. Two things: people are very unwilling to admit they might have fucked up if they have been out and about.

In the press briefing earlier I heard them say that workplaces are worse for spread right now. So it seems that's where people are getting it and then passing it on.

Seems there's a big gap in jobs which can't be done at home and those which are essential. We need to make sure these people are financially supported to not work and make sure employers close buisnesses.

Given that there are apparently only 30% of people complying fully with the requirement to isolate when returning from travel/coming into contact with positive cases etc then I’d say that was the real problem.

Where they then infect others is largely irrelevant. Of course, given that they are financially penalised for doing the right thing, it’s fairly unlikely to stop

@covetingthepreciousthings

I think if supermarkets were such a massive problem there would be lots of talk of all the supermarket staff coming down with it and it spreading like wildfire amongst staff. My DH works in one, they've only had 1 staff case (which meant the close shift contacts had to isolate) since the beginning of the pandemic and it was only last month. Though I know staff wear masks.. the stores sometimes aren't well ventilated in back rooms. I've been surprised but quite relieved that it hasn't been a cause for concern at his workplace.

Have other supermarket staff found the same?

I work in a supermarket and we've had very few, if any cases amongst the staff. If we had had any, you can bet we'd know, that news would be round like wildfire.

Tell a lie, we've had one case recently, it more than likely came from where the parent worked as they've had an outbreak in their factory, so they assume that's where it started.
We've had people tested as they had a cough etc but nothing has come of it.

A pp asked about supermarket staff wearing masks- the law says you don't have to wear one behind a screen or if you're exempt. However different supermarket brands may have their own individual take on that. Our local Morrisons garage has a sign on their screens saying that the cashiers don't have to wear one behind a screen.

think if supermarkets were such a massive problem there would be lots of talk of all the supermarket staff coming down with it and it spreading like wildfire amongst staff

This

There was a study in Boston (USA) that found high rates of infection in supermarket staff, especially in front facing roles, and are a reservoir of infection

www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/high-rate-of-symptomless-covid-19-infection-among-grocery-store-workers/

"Those in customer-facing roles 5 times as likely to test positive as their colleagues"

"Grocery store employees are likely to be at heightened risk of COVID-19 infection, with those in customer-facing roles 5 times as likely to test positive as their colleagues in other positions, suggests the first study of its kind, published in the journal Occupational & Environmental Medicine."

"What’s more, among those testing positive, three out of four had no symptoms, suggesting these key workers could be an important reservoir of infection, say the researchers."

@covetingthepreciousthings

I think if supermarkets were such a massive problem there would be lots of talk of all the supermarket staff coming down with it and it spreading like wildfire amongst staff. My DH works in one, they've only had 1 staff case (which meant the close shift contacts had to isolate) since the beginning of the pandemic and it was only last month. Though I know staff wear masks.. the stores sometimes aren't well ventilated in back rooms. I've been surprised but quite relieved that it hasn't been a cause for concern at his workplace.

Have other supermarket staff found the same?

No. Local one has had most of their service station isolating & half the main store staff - they're home delivery staff are doing the deliveries fir the next nearest large beach as they've had to suspend all deliveries & get a deep clean done& isolate all staff.

Customers being absolute arses about wearing masks. Telling staff to fuck off if they're asked to wear one.

Staff policies lacking too - not required to wear masks in non public areas or behind screens (despite their being several staff in close proximity).

I think given the significantly different employment laws, health care system, views on covid and welfare system in the USA I'd be wary of making comparisons from the study done in Boston.

Obviously the more interaction you have the more risk. But as pp's have said I feel if supermarkets were an issue we'd be seeing way more staff with it and therefore an issue with supermarket capacity.

I also can't emphasise enough, we really need to get away from individual blame. Not that this thread is terrible for this but mumsnet in general is. The government lockdown too late every time and haven't provided the support so people sont lose their livelyhood. We wouldn't be picking over actions of people and where it's spreading if they'd acted sooner.

An alien arriving today would logically assume that the very riskiest activity requiring the most sanctions in the UK today to protect against covid is a walk in the countryside.

I think it’s like saying that most people who have tested positive have visited a lavatory recently .

It is just a very common place for people to have been - especially at the moment .

From anecdotal things I’ve heard, I do think the supermarket is used as a bit of a scapegoat when people know they’ve done something they shouldn’t have. Whether they caught it from visiting a friends house and lying about it or actually from the supermarket, who knows!

As for the supermarkets themselves, there’s a huge discrepancy! There are two near me. In one it’s like there isn’t a pandemic and people break the rules all the time. In the other, there’s staff on the door, a queue when necessary and it’s much calmer inside. The staff regularly clean the checkouts too.

I think they are running out of things to blame and supermarkets are one of the few things left open.

Unfortunately it's limited to what you can do it's a virus it's going to spread.

Thoroughly agree with pps.

People are dishonest - or stupid. There was a poster recently who swore her df had caught covid from his shopping delivery, because he went nowhere at all and only had carers in....

Likewise another poster was adamant they’d contracted it from a walk in the park... and only mentioned they had dcs going to school about ten posts further on.

The problem as valance said yesterday is being indoors and sharing air...

It's as simple as that, be it on a bus or train, more crowded parts of supermarket, queues, and offices and school.

Windows open, masks, window open masks.