Do people really think Covid is a problem caused by Boris and his government?

[whatintheheck]

I am astounded by some of the comments on here and in the wider press and social media that seem to imply that the situation in the UK is somehow the government's fault. Are people really silly/naive enough to think that? Perhaps a glance at pretty much every other country in the world might give a hint that there are no easy answers. I would love to hear what people think our government could do or have done differently....surely the answer lies in the population adjusting its behaviour until the vaccine is rolled out???? There is always the NZ option of literally shutting the doors, but this has killed their economy. Difficult choices.

@SexTrainGlue - then you need to look a bit harder. The two very obvious issues are the borders. Shutting them at the start & testing. Next Track & Trace - where the hell is it? These are not difficult things to fathom really.

If it was Labour they would be singing their praises all the way through

Utter bollocks

@whatintheheck - I appear to have read more international news than you.

@Spaniels2020 - I'm so sorry we're boring you. And well done for following the Tory narrative of blaming the population 👍. I find that particularly tiresome and disingenuous but you're not interested.

We were told right at the start of the first lockdown that it would be off and on and off and on. No surprise there. But, why spoil a good chance to moan about the tories.

Everyone holds up Oz as a shining example and we look at things in such a black and white manner in terms of 'failure' and 'success.' It's just not that simple with a pandemic. I know of 3 people who have been badly affected by the Oz policy regarding lockdown. Our neighbour who is a 78 year old widow and whose only son lives in Oz. He was due to come back and get her last year but now she has zero hope of seeing him any time soon and has completely given up. An old work friend who moved there a few years ago and had twins last year who is desperately trying to move back home because she has no idea when her family will be able to meet her babies and feels completely trapped. And my friends father who is terminally ill and he cannot fly back to be with him. They did allow compassionate travel at one point but this was quickly stopped. I know lots of people have been badly affected by the pandemic both here and across the pond but it really isn't as simple as some make out and there is a human cost to certain methods as well, facts and figures don't paint the full picture.

@waterlane problem is this is a crisis that’s bigger than any one individual. There are heartbreaking stories across the spectrum due to this pandemic (I’ve more than I would like of my own) but that doesn’t change the fact that for individuals to be in a position to properly recover if still able the main issue has to be prioritised.

Even weak restrictions will be catastrophic to some people, that’s not a good enough reason to not do them if the alternative is that the whole population pays the price.

[quote Cornettoninja]@waterlane problem is this is a crisis that’s bigger than any one individual. There are heartbreaking stories across the spectrum due to this pandemic (I’ve more than I would like of my own) but that doesn’t change the fact that for individuals to be in a position to properly recover if still able the main issue has to be prioritised.

Even weak restrictions will be catastrophic to some people, that’s not a good enough reason to not do them if the alternative is that the whole population pays the price.[/quote]
I agree with you and I'm not saying their policy is wrong, I'm just saying that they are held up as a shining example because of locking down completely but some people here would support that, whilst others don't support lockdown at all. Personally, I have been grateful for having moments of freedom over the past year but it's completely subjective, I appreciate that. Perhaps this isn't the thread for me because I can see that the government have made some massive errors but there have also been successes- I am maybe too middle of the road for MN!

Is that you Carrie?

@SilverGlitterBaubles

Is that you Carrie?

You got me Jeremy

@HijabiVenus - I understand that. We were also told we'd have a 'world beating' track and trace system. We spent BILLIONS on it. I'd just like it to work.

Covid isn't - obviously.
However the response, in light of our woefully equipped NHS, is entirely the government's fault.
Just for a start, public health hasn't been anything like a priority of sufficient import to successive governments as it should have been. The sugar tax and a few half-arsed comments about the obesity crisis does not cut the mustard. We have also been entirely unable to come up with ways of dealing with our ageing population other than seemingly expecting the NHS to cure mortality.
Secondly we do not have a health service able to deal with our obese and ageing population. We are below 20th on the list of countries for hospital beds per 1000 of population - as an example, Germany has 8 to our 2.5. It would be possible for that to work if our population was young and healthy, but it isn't, so we either needed to do a lot more to keep our population healthy and keep quality of life at the forefront of gerontology rather than avidly focusing on quantity to the detriment of all else; or provide more medical capacity.
Knowing that, the government locked us down in March, allegedly to flatten the curve to "save the NHS". Millions of pounds were then wasted on Nightingale Hospitals which couldn't be staffed. The government then kept us in permanent varying restrictions whilst it faffed about with T and T. 10 months after we were told that we were locking down to allow time to get the NHS up to speed, we are still locked down, and the NHS is still not able to cope.
As happens absolutely every winter, when the papers report beds in corridors and ambulances queuing outside A&Es, surprise surprise, hospitals are "overwhelmed" again this winter. The difference with other winters is that this time we knew what would happen - but the government did absolutely sod all apart from wasting time, energy and money on vanity projects.
What could have been done differently? Pretty much everything and there isn't enough space here to even begin. What should certainly happen from now on is that people should look behind the headlines and understand that the government has got the perfect excuse in Covid as to why both the NHS and the economy are failing, and can forever more cite "Covid" as the reason.
No it is not people breaking the rules - compliance has been extraordinarily high - that has got us into this. The one way in which the government is doing an absolutely sterling job though is using this to set people against each other; and whilst the population shouts at each other about masks (a complete diversion if ever there was one) and "flouting" and people jogging or whatever, the government can get away with their criminal and cowardly incompetence.

I just want to say reading a few threads on here that I am astonished at some employers and their attitude to covid and their lack of care to their employees.

The government have constantly advised employers and there should be full risk assessments and the guidance is blatantly being ignored .

I don’t think this is the government’s fault and somehow employees should get this reported to the relevant authorities.

Covid wasn't caused by the current government. But they have effectively killed tens of thousands of people with their lack of decisiveness, their cronyism and making friends rich while not delivering essential services such as track and trace
^this!

@Unsure33

I just want to say reading a few threads on here that I am astonished at some employers and their attitude to covid and their lack of care to their employees.

The government have constantly advised employers and there should be full risk assessments and the guidance is blatantly being ignored .

I don’t think this is the government’s fault and somehow employees should get this reported to the relevant authorities.

Talk is cheap and this government are very keen to talk the talk without parting with a penny, unless it directly benefits one of their cronies.

@ParisJeTAime

That’s your opinion . Others have said we are all going to pay for years for the money that has even pumped into furlough , research , vaccines , testing , grants etc.

For a lot of businesses there is help out there.

However despite your obvious ( have a dig at the posh tories) post .

What I was saying is that employers are deliberately ignoring guideline that don’t cost a lot of money and then putting there employees at risk .

For example a post on here where the employer was not letting staff wear masks when they were in close contact and no cleaning down.

In our establishment we have a rota for cleaning down and encourage staff to wear masks and provide facilities so that staff can wash hands and sanitise regularly .

So nothing it do with money .

It’s a virus, the government didn’t cause the pandemic and would another party have done things very differently?

Everything impacts on the spread from decisions that are made made, to rule breakers, people refusing to stay home, demanding schools and childcare be open, non essential travel etc.

[quote Unsure33]@ParisJeTAime

That’s your opinion . Others have said we are all going to pay for years for the money that has even pumped into furlough , research , vaccines , testing , grants etc.

For a lot of businesses there is help out there.

However despite your obvious ( have a dig at the posh tories) post .

What I was saying is that employers are deliberately ignoring guideline that don’t cost a lot of money and then putting there employees at risk .

For example a post on here where the employer was not letting staff wear masks when they were in close contact and no cleaning down.

In our establishment we have a rota for cleaning down and encourage staff to wear masks and provide facilities so that staff can wash hands and sanitise regularly .

So nothing it do with money .[/quote]
It needs to be enforced or incentivised. It isn't enough to issue guidelines and call it a job done. Yes, this is my opinion, as is yours.

The economy is FUCKED. Because this government have fucked it up SO badly. So badly. My children's children will be paying for their blunders.

You're right to assume I don't vote Tory, but I'm also a politics grad, so am perfectly able to see politics intellectually and not just randomly lash out because someone might seem to be 'posh' or from the 'wrong' side. Sometimes, the Conservatives do get it right. In this case, this government has not.

They were right to have considered the economy as well as the pandemic, but they haven't even done that properly. I was willing to have a bit of blitz spirit and give the PM the benefit of the doubt, although I am not one of their supporters. Now they have shown themselves to be half cooked, blundering idiots. Anyone who has any remaining patience for their antics is either a saint, extremely ignorant, or a little unhinged.

I agree. It’s Also proved that most of the British public are absolutely unable to think for themselves, or manage their own risk. They like to blame the government for everything and babysit them. And all the “so I can shop in Sainsburys, but can’t see my mum” garbage beggars belief. Clearly the government needed to cover every single possible scenario so things were clearer.

Mistakes have been, definitely but hindsight is a wonderful thing. And the New Zealand argument makes me roll my eyes, it’s like comparing apples and pears.

Boris is fine, they did some stupid things in the summer, relaxing things too much. Eat out to help out being the most ridiculous. And I only ate out once by ourselves, but so many people were socialising indoors. I don't blame the government and this is all new, and in a way you can't blame people they are naturally social. It's just bad bad luck.

@rigabalsam could it be that the higher death rate here compared to France and Italy relates to differences in the demographics of these countries compared to the UK? Or perhaps obesity levels? no one has had time to do the research yet.

@Frazzled2207

There is woefully little press coverage of what other countries are doing, and his very similar it is

It doesn't change the fact that the UK is one of the WORST COUNTRIES ON EARTH when it comes to deaths adjusted for population. I'm pretty sure nobody else predicted that a year ago.
Other countries have had issues, but this country's response has been shambolic in comparison with many.

However, I am heartened that the vaccination programme appears to be running pretty well thus far. Which is good. But the £22bn spent on test and trace is clearly one of the worst things that this government has done. How on earth have we spent that much on a programme that eight months in has us back to almost worse than square one?

And the new zealand economy is doing absolutely fine. Don't necessarily think that closing your borders entirely is going to be doable long term though,

The UK is also one of the worst countries on earth for obesity. Could there be a link?

@whatintheheck

I am astounded by some of the comments on here and in the wider press and social media that seem to imply that the situation in the UK is somehow the government's fault. Are people really silly/naive enough to think that? Perhaps a glance at pretty much every other country in the world might give a hint that there are no easy answers. I would love to hear what people think our government could do or have done differently....surely the answer lies in the population adjusting its behaviour until the vaccine is rolled out???? There is always the NZ option of literally shutting the doors, but this has killed their economy. Difficult choices.

Reminds me when people blame Labour for the global financial crisis 😂

I blame Boris for the government’s response to the pandemic. You’d have to be a bit simple minded to think there’s only one way to respond and prime minister Johnson has got it right

@Yohoheaveho

Covid wasn't caused by the current government. But they have effectively killed tens of thousands of people with their lack of decisiveness, their cronyism and making friends rich while not delivering essential services such as track and trace ^this!

Wow. So you do actually think its totally the government's fault that people have died. I rest my case!! There is a really good article in the news today about how the head of the vaccine task force, who happens to be an ex venture capitalist, used her contact book to recruit people capable of quickly negotiating deals to secure vaccine supplies. I suppose you think this is cronyism too? Grow up.

Eat out to help out was great. It was a life line to restaurants etc. I used it a few times and it gave the country a much needed boost. I don’t think it had much of an impact on Covid spread did it? Everyone wanted their kids tested in September but these kids mostly just had colds not Covid so I don’t think eotho can be blamed for that.
I hope it gets repeated this year, later on in the summer. I heard talk of a theatre based one to to help theatres. That also sounds good.