Do people really think Covid is a problem caused by Boris and his government?

[whatintheheck]

I am astounded by some of the comments on here and in the wider press and social media that seem to imply that the situation in the UK is somehow the government's fault. Are people really silly/naive enough to think that? Perhaps a glance at pretty much every other country in the world might give a hint that there are no easy answers. I would love to hear what people think our government could do or have done differently....surely the answer lies in the population adjusting its behaviour until the vaccine is rolled out???? There is always the NZ option of literally shutting the doors, but this has killed their economy. Difficult choices.

@Clavinova

endofthelinefinally Hindsight? I listened to an interesting interview with the editor of the lancet this week. He was saying that there were 5 papers published in January 2020 detailing exactly what was coming.

Richard Horton? Who tweeted 23/24 January 2020;

A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a “killer virus” + “growing fears”. In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCoV has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity. There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language.

That is interesting. He didn't mention that as far as I know ( internet dropped out once or twice). He should have tweeted again after publication. I will watch again and send a question.

Coronavirus is not the governments fault and some others suggestions have been made with the benefit of hindsight. But there were things that would have been easier to implement, even if not straight away, like strict quarantine, even if closing borders wasnt feasible
2 family members actually went to and returned from south east Asia in March. One was told to quarantine but she could do this in her own flat and wasnt checked. Another friend returned from NZ . They were not told to quarantine at all and went back to stay with family. While NZ itself probably posed very little threat, they would have travelled through several airports and on different planes to get to Heathrow.
Allowing free travel over the summer (and not enforcing any quarantines) must surely have added to the mix when everyone went back to school/work. And by using "guidance" instead of law meaning people will go on holiday rather than lose money because they wont get a refund.(a family I know went on holiday abroad over xmas and new year "because they could")
The 11th hour U-turns over Christmas mixing and schools returning. When Keir Starmer said it had to be done, it seems like Johnson just held out as long as possible because he couldnt bear to agree! I can see in the first lockdown there could have been some hesitancy working out the financial implications, but some of the framework for that is now in place and by delaying until the 11th hour , it's probably going to add weeks to the lockdown, and thus exacerbating the financial hit. The virus was growing at a way higher rate than it can be controlled.
However after saying all that, I have actually been impressed about how quickly they've approved and started with vaccines.
I didnt vote conservative, and I wont in the next election, but I do give credit for that. A lot of people are even complaining about the vaccination programme as well, as if once you've started criticising the government you are obliged to continue to do so, even if they make a rare good decision.

@cyclingmad

Ah yes the easy thing is to blame the goverment. You see it on here how Boris has done a u-turn except what they failt to see is how MSM put out so much rubbish based on supposedly inside sources and make crap up like omg they are going to take support bubbles away, then someone reads it comes on here starts a thread, people get enraged and then its announced its notnhaplening and its lmg Boris has done a u-turn.

You only have to look at every lockdown to see the pattern an announcement is made that Boris is to address the nation and the days leading up to is pure speculation on what it means and then hebdoes his announcement and its omg he did a u-turn. Its only a u-turn if he slactuslly says something and then turns round and goes bsck on it but if he hasn't said it in the first place then... 🤷‍♂️

Anyway people just love to bash the government.

We're doing great on vaccine rollout compared to other countries in general and people still find a way to bash him

If it was Labour they would be singing their praises all the way through

We’ve clearly got different tints on our spectacles.

Boris was interviewed saying how safe schools were then less than 24hrs later (I.e no new information, projections or massive changes in case numbers) closed schools for at least half a term. That’s the most recent example.

Spin it however you like, it was a blatant U turn because they didn’t like what the scientists had been advising them for weeks and backed themselves into yet another corner.

Lab rats learn to navigate a chess maze quicker.

@Fizbosshoes I will give credit where it’s due, the finding of the magic money tree was appreciated for furlough, it’s a damn sight more than a lot of other countries and would of been a great investment had we actively tried to suppress case numbers,

Vaccine investment was a handled brilliantly, the jury for the roll out is still out. I’m highly uncomfortable with them acting against developer advice regarding dosage timings. For all our sakes I really hope this is a gamble that pays off.

Boris was interviewed saying how safe schools were then less than 24hrs later (I.e no new information, projections or massive changes in case numbers) closed schools for at least half a term. That’s the most recent example

It was obvious on the Friday the frightening trajectory of cases shooting up and death rate rising, that this wasnt going to be reversed or even stabilised over the weekend.....and yet they did interview after interview still insisting it was safe and schools would definitely be returning. The only slight advantage was that many schools had an inset day on the Monday so not every school had kids in mixing (but that was by chance not planned to minimise spread)

There is woefully little press coverage of what other countries are doing, and his very similar it is

It doesn't change the fact that the UK is one of the WORST COUNTRIES ON EARTH when it comes to deaths adjusted for population. I'm pretty sure nobody else predicted that a year ago.
Other countries have had issues, but this country's response has been shambolic in comparison with many.

However, I am heartened that the vaccination programme appears to be running pretty well thus far. Which is good. But the £22bn spent on test and trace is clearly one of the worst things that this government has done. How on earth have we spent that much on a programme that eight months in has us back to almost worse than square one?

And the new zealand economy is doing absolutely fine. Don't necessarily think that closing your borders entirely is going to be doable long term though,

@Frazzled2207

There is woefully little press coverage of what other countries are doing, and his very similar it is

It doesn't change the fact that the UK is one of the WORST COUNTRIES ON EARTH when it comes to deaths adjusted for population. I'm pretty sure nobody else predicted that a year ago.
Other countries have had issues, but this country's response has been shambolic in comparison with many.

However, I am heartened that the vaccination programme appears to be running pretty well thus far. Which is good. But the £22bn spent on test and trace is clearly one of the worst things that this government has done. How on earth have we spent that much on a programme that eight months in has us back to almost worse than square one?

And the new zealand economy is doing absolutely fine. Don't necessarily think that closing your borders entirely is going to be doable long term though,

Track and trace does work. I know lots of people who have been contacted and isolated or got a test as a result and on several occasions. However I also know a hell of a lot of people who didn't download it because they didn't want to. We are not at square one, we're experiencing a second wave which most other countries are now experiencing, especially in Europe and having similar lockdowns and restrictions as a result

I'm fairly sure that there was a thread on here about people purposefully giving false names/phone numbers on T&T because they didn't like the intrusion into their private life.

We were in a good position before it first hit, having seen what it had done in Europe. Had we shut our borders then, and gone into lockdown, we would have had nowhere near the amount of deaths we've had.

The government have consistently failed to act quickly enough; everything they've done is generally a week or two later than the scientists - their own scientists - have advised.

They've been reactionary, rather than showing leadership. Because they're Conservatives, money and the economy is their priority, rather than the safety of their people.

Regardless of the economy, I'd rather be living in NZ today, and have a Prime Minister who cares about her people rather than her mates in big business.

And please don't refer to him as "Boris". It makes him sound cute and cuddly, rather than the selfish wanker he actually is.

@Myalternate

I'm fairly sure that there was a thread on here about people purposefully giving false names/phone numbers on T&T because they didn't like the intrusion into their private life.

And others refusing to answer their phones to unknown numbers in case it's T&T telling them to isolate!

@FleetwoodRaincoat

We were in a good position before it first hit, having seen what it had done in Europe. Had we shut our borders then, and gone into lockdown, we would have had nowhere near the amount of deaths we've had.

The government have consistently failed to act quickly enough; everything they've done is generally a week or two later than the scientists - their own scientists - have advised.

They've been reactionary, rather than showing leadership. Because they're Conservatives, money and the economy is their priority, rather than the safety of their people.

Regardless of the economy, I'd rather be living in NZ today, and have a Prime Minister who cares about her people rather than her mates in big business.

But the economy isn't just about rich people. It's everyone. It funds the NHS and other public services. Earlier this week I saw a report that up to 25% of small businesses may not re-open. That's a hell of a lot of a loss to the economy, lots more unemployed, lots less tax receipts.

@Frazzled2207 Sadly the the NZ economy is not doing fine, their GDP fell by 10% in July, then recovered, and now has fallen over 11% and is still falling. They are forecasting further falls for this quarter. It's a question of balancing economic disaster and health disaster, NZ went for health.

There is woefully little press coverage of what other countries are doing

Luckily Google is your friend with that. Virtually unlimited amounts of information about different countries at your fingertips. The "press" is pretty irrelevant these days.

@user1497207191
Yes, the economy is more than rich people

The economy according to this govt, is ONLY about the rich people, THEIR rich people

[quote whatintheheck]@Frazzled2207 Sadly the the NZ economy is not doing fine, their GDP fell by 10% in July, then recovered, and now has fallen over 11% and is still falling. They are forecasting further falls for this quarter. It's a question of balancing economic disaster and health disaster, NZ went for health.[/quote]
They've had a bumpy ride but they are going to have an enormously better 2021 than the rest of us.

this has killed their economy is totally untrue. www.ft.com/content/b8c4ab58-99db-4af2-9449-5fd70a9235ce

Yes their border is closed but people are going to work and socially their lives are near normal. Their approach is necessarily replicatable (is that a word) in this country but I'd still say that's a pretty good job. Our friends there think they got off extremely luckily and despite not being able to visit home they're hugely grateful.

@Myalternate

I'm fairly sure that there was a thread on here about people purposefully giving false names/phone numbers on T&T because they didn't like the intrusion into their private life.

I would guess that it's less to do with the intrusion in their private lives and more to do with the fact that they can't afford to self isolate and be off work for 2 weeks on £90 a week.

Also the lack of faith in the t&t being correct, I know people who have not been anywhere for over a week being contacted but not told where they had been tracked from.

I think covid is unavoidable but the scale of the impact is caused by the government's bad decisions

1. Sing happy birthday while washing hands and social distance. Didn't work in March so why would it work in September
2. The stupid app
3. No plan b for when the app didnt work
4. Eat out to help out - loads of people in aor conditioned restaurants with no masks
5. Schools being too difficult to manage in a safe way so let's ignore that and pretend its fine
6. Ignoring advice re lockdowin in October
7. The non lockdown lockdown in November
8. The stupid flip flopping Christmas palaver

If it were me I'd be looking at what is genuinely safe and putting that in place strategically. With a clearly signposted plan that if cases are at x level, and increasing, the following actions will be taken.
For example, in September I would have done blended learning for schools with each pupil in for 1 week out of 3, learning from home the other 2. Then any bubble bursting could be managed through self isolation a lot more easily, employees and employers could plan and it would be less disruptive. Rather than going "oh its too hard, let's not bother" and then knee jerking a second long lockdown with no notice when the death rates soar.
The government have been atrocious. Their job is to make tough decisions in the nations best interests, they haven't protected the economy OR saved lives. Its appalling

But the economy isn't just about rich people. It's everyone. It funds the NHS and other public services. Earlier this week I saw a report that up to 25% of small businesses may not re-open. That's a hell of a lot of a loss to the economy, lots more unemployed, lots less tax receipts

I agree with this but I also want the economic plan to be a sustainable one. Constant half-assing restrictions is what’s harmful here. If we want the economy to function then the restrictions have to be used wisely.

We’ve been here before but it’s not the restrictions that are the problem it’s the lack of patience in allowing them to take effect. Time and time again we see reports long after a change has been made and strategies changed again that the original one was showing the desired effect.

Controlling this virus is like steering a ship, changes are slow to show their consequences but when they become apparent they’re significant.

One of the more stupid decisions is giving notice of when isolating will be required for travellers, I.e. in five days' time all travellers returning from Spain will have to isolate.

Then thousands of families rush back to beat the isolation clock, and stroll into work/school/uni/shops/pubs/ hospitals/ care homes on Monday

@whatintheheck

precisely my thoughts. And whilst it is lovely to think the government could 'prepare for a pandemic' - this is such a nebulous idea...noone could predict what the virus would be and how it would behave.

this is so fucking hilarious.

Of course you can prepare for a pandemic. And it doesn't matter if there's an appetite among taxpayers for pandemic planning. It's part of your job as government in a global society. Which they failed at.

I don't think they are to blame for Covid, of course not. I think they are to blame for our high death rates.

Years of underfunding the NHS play more than a large part.

They didn't cause the pandemic obviously. But they've exacerbated it. We didn't need to have this death rate. And they didn't need to line the pockets of their cronies in the way they have. I could go on. They seem to be taking the vaccine rollout seriously at least, so let's hope for brighter days ahead.

There's quite a big difference between not preparing for a pandemic and running the NHS down for the past 10 years!
Things they could have done better:
Closed the borders
Invested in PPE back in January when it was obvious Covid was a problem.
Not abandoned track and trace back in February.
Not given the new revamped track and trace to their mates.
Locked down sooner than they did.
The PM could have attended the first 4 COBRA meetings that were called to discuss CV-19.

And that takes us to about June! Then we have:
Still not closed the borders and letting everyone bugger off abroad over the summer
Eat out to help out.
The failure of the new test and trace
Failure to support people financially to isolate or be off sick.
The first Tier system which wasn't tight enough to prevent the spread.
Letting cases run at a level that enabled it to mutate.
Not making sure schools were Covid safe
Letting students head off to University at the end of September
Not locking down for 2 weeks over October half term as advised by SAGE
Changing the rules/ guidance over 70 times ( can't remember the exact figure!
Christmas mixing
Not locking down soon enough (again)

Those are just off the top of my head! How anyone can think they have done a good job is beyond me!