Do people really think Covid is a problem caused by Boris and his government?

[whatintheheck]

I am astounded by some of the comments on here and in the wider press and social media that seem to imply that the situation in the UK is somehow the government's fault. Are people really silly/naive enough to think that? Perhaps a glance at pretty much every other country in the world might give a hint that there are no easy answers. I would love to hear what people think our government could do or have done differently....surely the answer lies in the population adjusting its behaviour until the vaccine is rolled out???? There is always the NZ option of literally shutting the doors, but this has killed their economy. Difficult choices.

Cock up

[quote whatintheheck]@tigger001 I can't actually find the will to reproduce all your points, but at a rough guess 75% relate to things we could only know once scientists had begun to understand the virus. how are you getting on with finding a country where the government has got it right??[/quote]
OK just list one of them then.

well obviously the virus isn’t the Tories fault. But I’d argue the crisis absolutely is due to their handling of the virus.

tigger001 I can't actually find the will to reproduce all your points,
So why start the debate ??? If you can't have a discussion about it?

but at a rough guess 75% relate to things we could only know once scientists had begun to understand the virus.
So your debate is now based on a rough guess, which I have told you is incorrect.

how are you getting on with finding a country where the government has got it right??

I have already answered that.

@tigger001 so lets go with this...which government, in a similarly populous and trade dependant country, has actually managed to get it right

I’ll play - Japan.

Was also going to say Japan. Double the UK’s population squeezed on to a tiny group of islands, aging population, close to the source of COVID. Major hub for travellers.

Just over 4,000 deaths so far.

[quote whatintheheck]@tigger001 I can't actually find the will to reproduce all your points, but at a rough guess 75% relate to things we could only know once scientists had begun to understand the virus. how are you getting on with finding a country where the government has got it right??[/quote]
Sorry, it was only 10%. That means 90% of what tigger wrote did not require hindsight.

Next!

I’ll play too: Hong Kong

Even in April, those in Hong Kong could not comprehend the UK's approach to Covid:

bylinetimes.com/2020/04/21/the-coronavirus-crisis-the-uks-perplexing-approach-to-covid-19-as-viewed-from-hong-kong/

'Neither experts nor ordinary citizens here can comprehend the two months of dithering and denial which characterised the UK approach.Locals gasped in astonishment at images of Londoners travelling on the Tube without wearing face masks or attending concerts. As one exasperated doctor here told me in February: “They know it’s contagious, they know there’s no cure and they know it kills people, what more do they need to know?”

@whatintheheck

I am astounded by some of the comments on here and in the wider press and social media that seem to imply that the situation in the UK is somehow the government's fault. Are people really silly/naive enough to think that? Perhaps a glance at pretty much every other country in the world might give a hint that there are no easy answers. I would love to hear what people think our government could do or have done differently....surely the answer lies in the population adjusting its behaviour until the vaccine is rolled out???? There is always the NZ option of literally shutting the doors, but this has killed their economy. Difficult choices.

But the current situation is the government's fault. The more the virus is allowed to spread, the more likely new strains are to develop. The government allowed the virus to spread in an almost unmitigated way last autumn- particularly through trying to keep schools open as normal.

There are lots of countries around the world that have followed a zero covid strategy, and it has not tanked their economies. New Zealand have had a big economic recovery in the second half of 2020.

The population can't adjust their behaviour when they are being forced to go to work or school, and that is a direct result of government policy.

We have the most deaths per capita in the world. Don't kid yourself that we are in the same situation as everyone else.

[quote Cornettoninja]**@tigger001 so lets go with this...which government, in a similarly populous and trade dependant country, has actually managed to get it right

I’ll play - Japan.[/quote]
I’ll play again
Singapore

@Cornettoninja have you seen how Taiwan have dealt with it (while not comparable to us) they really had a handle on it.

Turkey have done pretty well.

Taiwan was going to be my next answer!
Approximately 800 cases and 7 deaths, I lbelieve.

That's because it's easy to come with alternatives with hindsight! Especially when you don't have the responsibility for implementing them!

Covid 19 deaths / million in developed countries. Source : Statista.

Italy 1341
UK 1285
US 1178
Spain 1127
France 1020
Sweden 990
Germany 544
Canada 467
Denmark 285
Finland 112
Norway 96
Australia 36
Japan 32
New Zealand 5

The U.K. government has fucked up its handling of the pandemic spectacularly, as have many other countries. BUT this was avoidable, as these figures clearly demonstrate.

Taiwan had the advantage of really comprehending that when China panic the rest of us should really shit ourselves. We were still just singing happy birthday whilst washing our hands when they where if full defensive mode.

If = in

@Jaxhog

That's because it's easy to come with alternatives with hindsight! Especially when you don't have the responsibility for implementing them!

The point is that a lot of the examples were mind boggling at the time based on the advice of the experts employed by the government for the sole purpose of advising them because they don’t have the knowledge required. No hindsight required.

They’re obviously not to blame for the virus. But they are absolutely to blame for the decisions they’ve made such as not taking early action last March, not closing borders, encouraging people to eat out in August, the shambles of u-turns over Christmas and schools returning, giving vital contracts like track and trace to their mates who failed at the job, supporting Dominic Cummings and co breaking the rules.

Is that you Carrie?

I'm a bit sick of the hindsight excuse. Last March people were demanding the govt stop things like the Cheltenham Festival, big concerts etc. The football association stopped matches and gave a lead to the govt. That's just the first example and it is clear that isn't hindsight.

They have made SO MANY mistakes that I can’t believe you don’t know about them. Cygnus Report? Allowing large sports events to go ahead? Giving billions to their inexperienced mates just for a laugh?

That's because it's easy to come with alternatives with hindsight!

It is only hindsight if it was said after the fact, the vast majorities of their failings don't qualify for that.

Which ones do you believe to be hindsight ?

And if we all on here saying “what the fuck are they doing?” AT THE TIME, then that is not hindsight, that’s not even an oversight. That’s it a failure. One that has caused utter chaos.