Do people really think Covid is a problem caused by Boris and his government?

[whatintheheck]

I am astounded by some of the comments on here and in the wider press and social media that seem to imply that the situation in the UK is somehow the government's fault. Are people really silly/naive enough to think that? Perhaps a glance at pretty much every other country in the world might give a hint that there are no easy answers. I would love to hear what people think our government could do or have done differently....surely the answer lies in the population adjusting its behaviour until the vaccine is rolled out???? There is always the NZ option of literally shutting the doors, but this has killed their economy. Difficult choices.

@cushioncovers

Scientists have been warning the world that we are due a pandemic because of our farming methods and over population for many years now. But no government is going to say stop reproducing & eating everything that moves. So we have been asleep at the wheel and coasted straight into this imo.

The thing is, if we put just a fraction of the money and effort that we've put into a vaccine into developing lab-grown meat (which is already on the cusp of being viable en-masse and really is just being slowed down by lack of funding/research and push-back from traditional farming industries), we could just stop mass-farming animals within a matter of years. I don't know why there's not more of a push for that.

This pandemic won't be the last. And a virus arising from our proximity to animals and farming isn't a "once-in-a-lifetime" event. We've already had swine flu and avian flu in my lifetime, the only difference is they weren't as bad as this one. But the next one could be even worse and could happen pretty soon based on the regularity with which they've happened over the last 30 years.

I do find it fascinating that some posters think the Govt had nothing to do with how badly the pandemic has hit this country.
Is it because they are true Blue tories, not very bright or both? I would love to know more about the mind-set and background.

Re. Vaccines. From what I've seen, the Govt have been pushed every step of the way - eg. pharmacists had to pressure the Govt to be part of the roll-out, the Govt said they'd be no 24 hour a day service, I think they've u-turned on that. The vaccine is very much led by the scientists and the NHS thank goodness - I hope Govt opportunities to cock it up are limited.

Of course not, but why would anyone take issue with debate and discussion about how our government have handled the pandemic in the UK?

It is political, just the same as every other single thing is that affects our lives in terms of law, policy and governance.

The government have made it much worse. When you look at places with covid under control like China south Korea, Vietnam, aus, new Zealand. The government should have locked down sooner and gone for zero covid and fortress Britain. It needed to stand up to business on travel curbs, it needed to tell the people who were flying away in February on skiing holidays they needed forced quarantine on return. It needed to keep adequate supplies of PPE in the country ( I was stockpiling from January). The government has been slow and behind the curve for a while now.

The pandemic is not their fault, no.
Saying one day that schools are fine to open, then letting schools open for one day, then closing them at 8pm is their fault.
A test and trace system that isn’t up to scratch is their fault.
Not firing (or even criticising) Dominic Cummings is their fault.
Not enforcing a negative test before entering the country until now is their fault.
Not coming down harder on employers forcing people into offices when they could just as well work from home is their fault.
And so on.

@Directionerforever

I will say the vaccine effort appears to be, thus far pretty well managed.

Yes, I’d agree with this

They have called in the army but obviously this is delegation which is a good thing to do as a manager

Are people really silly/naive enough to think that? 🙄

Oh dear & are you really silly enough not to think his dithering & putting profit before people has cost lives. Nor that the systematic underfunding of the NHS & lack of free training for nurses & Brexshit has left them woefully under staffed to be able to cope in a pandemic

Not blaming the incompetent people who have failed us badly during this pandemic, which includes & is lead by Boris, before would be pretty bloody silly & naive to me

The tory government didnt start the pandemic, but years of massively underfunding the NHS means we dont have the infrastructure to cope, coupled with really bad management of the strategy has meant that our death toll is much much higher than it should be, for such a wealthy country.

The government obviously didn't cause the virus but their inaction has cost lives imo.
We were always going to have a higher death toll than some of our European counterparts because of the rates of obesity, number of BAME people and number of densely populated areas. Even if they had just been super cautious with care home residents, it would have made a massive difference to the death figures. I know that other countries have had issues in care homes eg Scotland but are they lying about rings of protection like populist Johnson's ministers are?

If the government was more humble they'd have more support. This is an unprecedented situation for the UK but Johnson has alienated people with fake promises, corruption, lies and boasts.

The government deserves recognition for the vaccine side of things including investing in development, procuring and distribution. I hope that things continue at this pace and the second vaccine is distributed successfully too. Obviously there's a lot of other people involved in that including people giving the vaccines, trial volunteers etc but vaccines are a major beacon of hope that things are heading the right way.

No, the government is not responsible for covid.

It is responsible for repeatedly locking down late, so lockdowns need to go on for longer to bring infections down to an "acceptable" level. Thus higher infections, more deaths, greater economic damage.

It is responsible for not adequately supporting businesses and people on low incomes who need to self isolate, so they have to go to work and spread infection.

It is responsible for not setting up an effective track and trace system that could have reduced infections, deaths and burden on healthcare.

It is responsible for systematically underfunding healthcare over many years, leading to its current crisis state.

It is responsible for squandering huge sums of money on tendering and awarding contracts to sub-standard private contractors who were unable to deliver when needed.

It is responsible for ambiguous "rules" and confusing messaging leading to poor adherence to rules and low trust in govt advice.

It is responsible for not listening to scientific advice on schools opening, Christmas mixing, or reducing prevalence of Covid in the wider population so that spikes are controllable, as they are in other countries.

It is responsible for failing to introduce airport checks and adequate quarantine, particularly in the spring / summer.

It is responsible for tolerating clusters that should have been contained through more forceful measures (see Australia), and for tolerating a high infection level in the wider population.

The opposition and members of the Conservative party who fail to challenge this poor performance are also in a way responsible. Our political class has failed us.

That do you?

It's the response that is a problem caused by government not covid.

I have family and friends in many parts of the world. Some of them live in countries that are less densely populated than the UK but others don't. My facebook pages are full of pictures of them attending parties, enjoying holidays at beach, hugging friends and so on. Their governments have handled the pandemic much better than ours has. This government only cares about their rich donors and making sure they are OK and even making money from the pandemic.

They have allowed people to die unnecessarily and destroyed the economy at the same time.

The negativity is tiresome. And counterproductive. A real turn off. Lots of the issues are down to people not following the rules, not giving the right information to track and trace. No system will work if people are not compliant. Also, I suspect those people who like to bash Boris voted remain and haven't moved on. The lack of constructive suggestions delivered in the spirit of supporting is pitiful. So much whinging and moaning, finger pointing and actually it seems hoping for things to get worse. Remainers did not get over the fact Boris was voted in on an 80 seat majority. Brexit won. Lots of people voted for Brexit. Much of the media were dumbfounded. And had no idea how to handle it. So they have transferred their loathing to try to undermine the Government at every stage. Of course there will be mistakes, things not always right. But blimey, this is a nightmare and I despair of people who do not understand when to put a lid on it and simply try to constructively pull together.

@Rosehip10

The virus/pandemic - of course not. How it has been handled? Of course the Government is responsible for that (and that applies if you think current government has been a car crash, or handled it well)

So you think Scotland has handled it better? Or Spain, Or Brazil?

@whatintheheck

precisely my thoughts. And whilst it is lovely to think the government could 'prepare for a pandemic' - this is such a nebulous idea...noone could predict what the virus would be and how it would behave.

Of course nobody could predict the exact nature of the virus that appeared. But the Obama administration had a Pandemic department which had an extensive playbook for dealing with such things. They passed it to the Trump administration who junked it (cos it was Obama's) and shut down the department.

Then when the pandemic hit they had literally nothing to refer to; the people who could have stood up the infrastructure rapidly had been fired, and there was no national coordinated response.

Still think no government could have prepared?

Here you go @whatintheheck
This should help I think

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/the-governments-failure-over-covid-6897992

I don’t think people do think that? Unless they also think Italy’s government has done the same to Italians, Spanish government to Spaniards, Irish government to Irish, french government to the french etc etc.
It’s a virus and will do what a virus does.

So you think Scotland has handled it better? Or Spain, Or Brazil?

So you think no national government has done better than any other, and the fallout of the pandemic is all entirely random and unchangeable?

As to the NHS. Many of our NHS staff actually also work , at the same time, in the private sector. Which organisation comes first ? It wasn't always the case. The tax payer now trains the staff who the private sector use but who do not pay a penny back to the NHS or the taxpayerfor doing so. Recruitment therefore is a ever revolving door. It is a huge employer but needs to keep hold of its staff. Not all staff have been working on COVID. Don't automatically blame Governments be they Labour or Conservative. The NHS themselves have to take a look in the mirror. Consultants holding Governments to ransom demanding impossible contract arrangements. Staff dancing on video ? Gp's voting to not do home visits anymore. They don't have a culture of seeking to improve. Everyone tells them they are all marvellous. They do sadly, waste money. But we need the NHS. But they too do need managing. They don't like being managed.

Many people died unnecessarily simply because of Boris and his govt. If they acted early, were clear, held those accountable, enforced lockdown measures properly and for god's sake shut the borders for passenger travel then we would not be in this situation.

10 years austerity plus scaling back on funding for a pandemic crisis contingency is also to blame.

And yes, Taiwan did well didn't they? SK did well didn't they? What stopped us watching and learning? The fact they were "from over there"
Bloody ignorant. People have been harping on since last March to follow Taiwan, NZ and South Korea, but no- for some stupid reason, this govt still believes in its superiority over everyone else.

It's not just population. The buck stops with him.

This article from April gives some detail on Operation Cygnus and the woeful mistakes up until April.
I'm not sure there's enough space for the additional mess made since then.

bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-national-scandal-a-timeline-of-the-uk-governments-woeful-response-to-the-coronavirus-crisis/

The death rate in the last two days was because of his dithering over Christmas. We are seeing the equivalent of 2 plane crashes at least each day.

The variable here is this govt's handling. No argument over the fact that people are fatigued, but that is because they are fed up with the lack of leadership that keeps plunging is into lockdowns. We were fine in March when everyone united against this.

We should have strict lockdowns that last for 4 weeks. Calm this shit down, but no- it's too late.
I hope they do a better job with the vaccines- rooting for them on this

The negativity is tiresome

Not half as tiresome as people blethering on about boris bashing and people who voted remain...

We’ve left the EU, you really need to get over it (thats what people who voted remain are constantly told on here)

I’ll tell my leave voting boris loving dad that he is obviously hoping it will get worse and that he should stop whinging and being negative

Its sure to go down well

@Iwantacookie

Boris didnt make covid no but his government has faffed around so much that all the excess deaths ARE down to him and his government.

I agree.

Hindsight, on the whole, isn’t necessary for a lot of their errors and failings. The expert advice they were given was public and publicly ignored or dithered over and delayed until we had to pay the price for their inability to lead.

I do recognise what they’ve got right, the initial financial support was great (although lots of people fell through the cracks but that’s inevitable in a time strapped situation) and their efforts to secure vaccines.

Ultimately though they’ve cocked up and prolonged the worst bits. There’s been far too much ‘we advise’ when we needed solid leadership telling us ‘we need to’.