Do people really think Covid is a problem caused by Boris and his government?

[whatintheheck]

I am astounded by some of the comments on here and in the wider press and social media that seem to imply that the situation in the UK is somehow the government's fault. Are people really silly/naive enough to think that? Perhaps a glance at pretty much every other country in the world might give a hint that there are no easy answers. I would love to hear what people think our government could do or have done differently....surely the answer lies in the population adjusting its behaviour until the vaccine is rolled out???? There is always the NZ option of literally shutting the doors, but this has killed their economy. Difficult choices.

Opinions voiced on this thread about the government and it's handling of the pandemic are all immaterial. No one has any real idea of how things might have been handled differently by any other political party.
It's just what it is and like it or not, it's not going to change anything.

Absolutely bizarre attitude to take - I take it you're interested in politics, history, economics, medicine, how society works at all.

Really stupid.

@Helmetbymidnight

*Opinions voiced on this thread about the government and it's handling of the pandemic are all immaterial. No one has any real idea of how things might have been handled differently by any other political party. It's just what it is and like it or not, it's not going to change anything.*

Absolutely bizarre attitude to take - I take it you're interested in politics, history, economics, medicine, how society works at all.

Really stupid.

You're such an angry person.... Try relaxing. X

You don't have to be angry to call somebody stupid, tbf. I can see when someone is being stupid even when I'm really calm and happy.

First boris told us we could have a few days mixing at xmas....Backtracked when he realised what a stupid idea that was.
Told us schools were safe and could remain open.....Backtracked on that when he realised what a stupid idea that was and sent school pupils in for a day for nothing.
Told us we should stay in tiers as national lockdown was not needed....Backtracked on that when cases continued to rise despite being told weeks earlier the tier system was not strong enough.
Showed us it was all ok to shake covid positive patients hands because it was absolutely safe...Backtracked when he caught covid himself. Told care homes it was safe to send covid positive residents back to the care homes....Backtracked on that when care home deaths went through the roof.These are just some of his fatal errors of dealing with the pandemic. I could go on but its depressing.

@sashagabadon

Actually I think the two main parties have worked ok together. They have mainly been singing from the same hymn sheet with regards policies. Labours main complaint is that Boris is too slow not in the actions themselves. That hasn’t been the case in other countries notably the US and so I think that is a positive here generally. I would actually like to see Keir being less lockdown though or at least acknowledging the harm lockdown does but he has taken the more lockdown position not less, which I guess is a political decision as polls support lockdown. I read an account in the Guardian maybe in the late summer from a British journalist living in Portland in the US where there were nightly riots for weeks. She is now back in London. Anyway the jist of the article was that she was reading U.K. press about Cummings and wishing that was the main topic of discussion where she lived. She looked at that being our major outrage in the media with a sort of envy as opposed to riots and burning buildings. I thought that was an interesting perspective.

Thank you for sharing this. It reminds me of my IL's who are always saying how terrible things are here. Yet FIL has managed to have two knee ops during the pandemic, both times at a private hospital (even though they don't believe in private health), MIL had a cancerous growth removed, they've had full access to face to face doctors appointments throughout but now they are complaining that they haven't had the vaccine and how slow things are. I have friends living in other countries who wish they had it as bad as we think we do here!

Yes, the government are responsible for the irresponsible, incompetent and neglectful manner in which this country has stumbled through this pandemic.

But if you vote for someone who had been sacked for telling lies (when responsible for informing our country and its people through his position in the Media) ,not being a fan of detail and many references if incompetence, I'm not quite sure what people expected. The country was hardly going to flourish.

The consistency of the mixed message given was identified very early on in this pandemic as something Boris Johnson would use to beat the public with and pass the blame, and it happened.

Their many, many failing do need to be identified and they need to be held to account for their decisions. It is irrelevant what a different government might have done, it is irrelevant what other countries did Ultimately it is this, our, government who are accountable for the sheer volume of excess deaths and the catastrophic effect their decisions have had on our economy.

@Bourbonbiccy

Yes, the government are responsible for the irresponsible, incompetent and neglectful manner in which this country has stumbled through this pandemic.

But if you vote for someone who had been sacked for telling lies (when responsible for informing our country and its people through his position in the Media) ,not being a fan of detail and many references if incompetence, I'm not quite sure what people expected. The country was hardly going to flourish.

The consistency of the mixed message given was identified very early on in this pandemic as something Boris Johnson would use to beat the public with and pass the blame, and it happened.

Their many, many failing do need to be identified and they need to be held to account for their decisions. It is irrelevant what a different government might have done, it is irrelevant what other countries did Ultimately it is this, our, government who are accountable for the sheer volume of excess deaths and the catastrophic effect their decisions have had on our economy.

Here here!

@WhenPidgeonsCry

You don't have to be angry to call somebody stupid, tbf. I can see when someone is being stupid even when I'm really calm and happy.

Resorting to name calling worked a treat in the referendum.

As you were.

I’m more astonished about how anyone can think the government have done a good job to be honest. I accept its unprecedented in living memory but at times their response has been piss poor. Also, a number of issues are a direct result of their policies over the last decade. Having said that, I’ve been impressed by the vaccine roll out so far.

Theworldisfullofgs
And yes eat out to help out spread covid.

From your link;
Dr Thiemo Fetzer [who carried out the study] said the scheme "contributed to community transmission" and "the acceleration of the second wave".

Dr Fetzer is on Twitter. Notwithstanding his obvious political bias, his forecast on the outcome of the 2019 GE doesn't inspire much confidence in his work:

Thiemo Fetzer Nov 29, 2019
So why I think the # GE2019 is really not done yet. A short thread. The summary: I think a hung parliament is still a very likely and a desirable outcome for the UK. I first present some evidence on the former, and then my view on the desirability on the latter. # Brexit...

15. A second referendum is desirable as the current # Brexit deal was not advocated or campaigned for, even by the # Leave campaign. The 2019 election may well produce the following outcome...a small Conservative majority...

16. Parties advocating a # confirmatory # PeoplesVote...
This will or could be yet another shock to the perceptions of # democratic norms, but will deprive the right wing.

17. Of abusing the term of "the will of the people". What we have seen in the past 3.5 years is the stuff that democracies die off.

And here;
Thiemo Fetzer Dec 8, 2019
I want to share a new paper. Its relevant to # GE2019. The findings are quite exemplary of the misguidedness of much of economic & social policy under the # ConservativeParty. It should be a harbinger to wary voters...

Resorting to name calling worked a treat in the referendum

Lol! Ok.

And that’s why people will learn....

*never

Johnson hates the idea of lockdowns, he and his govt are also very inexperienced, he got rid of all the experienced ones as soon as he became PM, as most were remainers... surprise surprise!

We also had 10 years of tory austerity, so public services were run down to the bone.

In a pandemic, we need to act early but even with the December LD and his stupid 5 days of xmas, he delayed and the death rates we see plus the NHS being overwhelmed is the result.

Independent Sage has campaigned for nearly every action the government has taken - but weeks beforehand.

It's not that the Tories have got everything so wrong - but they are consistently too late - PPE, lockdowns, exams, school lunches - they have taken the right (and eye bleedingly obvious) decisions but just weeks after the rest of us have decided.

And that tardiness has cost lives - thousands of lives.

And the Dominic Cummings thing was more frightening than Trump in my opinion.

Why was a special advisor given the No10 garden to answer to the people when IT WAS OUR PRIME MINISTER that we voted for? It was a complete kick in the face of British democracy. A shameful act for the leader of our country.

Implementation of a lockdown is not really something that only takes a few days. There are so many considerations and consequences to take into account

And yet other countries have managed it in less than 24 hours

@Rosehip10

The virus/pandemic - of course not. How it has been handled? Of course the Government is responsible for that (and that applies if you think current government has been a car crash, or handled it well)

This!

The government are responsible for the handling of the pandemic in this country - the good and the bad. You can beg your bottom dollar they would be singing their own praises from the rooftops if we had managed to contain it.

The big thing for me is they should have stopped all international travel in February. And been tough on isolation when coming back from Abroad right from the start

@Mrbob

Implementation of a lockdown is not really something that only takes a few days. There are so many considerations and consequences to take into account

And yet other countries have managed it in less than 24 hours

Indeed. Surely the govt started planning when they saw the action being taken in other countries...action which started weeks before we locked down.

Delayed decisions
Contradictions
Officials not following rules and muddying the waters
Clear as mud rules
Trace and Trace disgrace
Lack of PPE
Open borders
School dinner contracts

To name a few reasons why Boris and the Tory government have us let down royally.

I really hope people take note when it comes to the next general election!
I never have and will probably never vote Tory and no we don't know exactly what a different party in power would have done but people need to look at how weak the government have been; the constant delays over decisions and ignoring the scientists who know more about viruses.
Worst government of my lifetime.

Caused, no. Exacerbated, yes.

@jelly79

Delayed decisions Contradictions Officials not following rules and muddying the waters Clear as mud rules Trace and Trace disgrace Lack of PPE Open borders School dinner contracts

To name a few reasons why Boris and the Tory government have us let down royally.

its interesting how this thread has drifted back to the usual debate of what the government may or may not have done wrong. Of course we will never know, as we can't predict what would have happened if they had done the complete opposite of everything they had done. I suppose really my point was that no government is bigger than the virus, and no country around the world seems to have managed to get it right. In my personal and business life I make U turns all the time - some might call it pragmatic decision making.

It’s very interesting how people are very quick to blame our government and completely forget that it was the Chinese Government who covered this up at the beginning and let it get out worldwide.

[quote Dreamylemon]@whatintheheck

There are not responsible for the pandemic, but they are leading our country through it and doing a poor job.

Their herd immunity plan in March made my jaw drop. We all saw the scenes from Italy and had the benefit of being able to act quicker - but didn't.

The same mistakes again were made at Christmas. Why on earth Boris allowed people to mix as cases were surging.

Boris doesn't act on the information until it's too late and makes statements that have no substance. Much like his Brexit campaign. .

The NHS is literally on its knees and we are not even in the peak yet. I've worked in a country with extreme poverty and limited healthcare and it is horrifying to see the suffering. We will be seeing similar cases here where we do not have the resources to treat people and those people will die.

I've not even gone into the defunding of the nhs over the last decade leaving us in a less resilient position than we would have been staffing and beds wise ( and also staff morale).

You should be furious with how this government has handled the pandemic and I hope you or your family have not suffered personally ( e.g. death/ long covid, lost job/ business) as many have and will in the future.[/quote]
of course me and my family have suffered personally. My business has been closed for 8 of the last 12 months. But I don't blame the government for this...I don't think the NHS is on its knees - but the media reporting of it implies that it is. Both me and several members of my immediate family have received NHS treatment promptly and safely in the last 6 months. What I do think might be wrong is that the high paid NHS executives are not held to account for basic slip ups like claiming it is the government's responsibility to ensure each member of staff has correct PPE. My staff (not healthcare) need PPE at times - I don't blame the government if I run out. I just make sure I don't run out.

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

If it was Labour they would be singing their praises all the way through

Utter bollocks

I fear they would be.