Why doesn’t U.K. just shut borders & have mandatory quarantine?

[Singaporeslings]

I live in a country where the government shut external borders 9mths ago (similar to Australia but not quite as tough!).
Citizens are allowed back but people like me on a long-term work visa have to apply for permission to leave and re-enter.
And EVERYONE who enters has to do 14-day quarantine at a designated facility. You’re taken from airport to your allocated hotel (which you have to pay approx £1k for but have no choice in) and locked in. Sounds extreme but that (with other strict mandated measures) has kept our case/death numbers v low.
Why haven’t the U.K. govt done this yet???

@PinkyParrot

I think it's because there are too many people entering the country and leaving. Google says nearly 90 million people passed through Heathrow in 2019, even if that was slashed in 2020 you are still looking for accommodation for, say 20 million, that's over a 54,000 a day - do we have 54,000 bedrooms available near to Heathrow?

You're right to some degree, the room requirement would be high, but FWIW Heathrow has a very very high percentage of transfer passengers (over 30% according to the last numbers I saw) so a lot of the 90 million/20 million wouldn't enter the UK, they'd get no further than airside at the airport before leaving again...

As for the subject of the thread..if you want to keep essential supplies and essential freight coming into the UK, and allow access for those who might need to do work on some essential equipment (e.g. power, telecomms, medical infrastructure) or help out with medical work/research you cannot have total border closure or even mandatory quarantine for absolutely everybody.

I’m really annoyed that the UK didn’t close their borders (plane, boat and road vehicles) last March. I really don’t see a point in lockdown, shutting down schools, work, shops, entertainment, hospitality and cancelling face to face GP appointments and hospital appointments if people can just swan in to the country. No testing, no quarantine. But yes, let’s ruin the nation’s mental health and economy, but freely allow others to spread the virus around.

Because there's no profit in it.

I’m really annoyed that the UK didn’t close their borders (plane, boat and road vehicles) last March.

So as per my previous post I take it that from last March you would have been happy to do without a lot of your food, and more importantly foreign produced PPE, foreign produced pharmaceuticals/drugs?

You can close down your borders without preventing the supply of food and pharma. You don’t have to close it down to absolutely everything using those routes.

We have to lockdown everything else because we haven’t shut the borders. You either prevent it coming in or you let it come in freely and shut everything else down to stop spread.

We seem to have got on a policy where we manage to let it come in freely while not managing to do enough internally to keep on top of transmission.

But there would have been exceptions for medical supplies and food. Reducing business and leisure travel would still have accounted for the majority of people coming in to the country

@whatwouldscullydo - you're not an island you have a land border with The Republic of Ireland.

Its geographically impossible for the UK to close its borders completely as there are hundreds of crossings between Northern Ireland and The Republic of Ireland. Ireland hasn't been great either - our numbers are so high right now. With Brexit also happening - it would have been a political nightmare for Britain to co-ordinate with Ireland in acting together with one set of rules. With the British history with Ireland the Irish government could not have had any rules made by Britain imposed on them - that part of history is gone for both of our countries. The British Government would never have had Irish rules imposed on them. We're a smaller country and a part of the EU they've now left. Also - why would any country accept rules imposed on them made by a foreign government? It would be a minefield to figure that one out And so you had two neighbouring countries with a border thats impossible to close both for geographical and political reasons.

@NoseinBook3

Because that would be too easy?

Because it’s all about money?

Because it’s a reasonable suggestion?

Totally agree. They could have done all this around a year ago when news of a pandemic was reaching us. But the economy is more important. Why was the Christmas lockdown announced so late? Well, how many people shopped for food assuming/hoping they could gather with family/friends, and his many people rushed out to get bigger and better Christmas presents?

@Bluegot

But there would have been exceptions for medical supplies and food. Reducing business and leisure travel would still have accounted for the majority of people coming in to the country

I agree, there would has to be exceptions.

I'm just a bit concerned that there appear to be some here who seem think the answer would have been or is "total border closure", meaning zero entry to the UK by anybody or anything..That can't be done if you want to keep UK infrastructure / supplies running.

How many people lives in your country? Do you have enough sun or people have a vitamin D deficiency. How many people travelling in and out in normal circumstances?

I couldn't understand why Boris didn't do an actual lock down last March and stop flights, ferries etc in and out of the UK. Oh no we had a half hearted pathetic lock down.

Maybe Boris is so stupid he doesn't realise we are an island

I don’t know. I’ve known someone coming in and out of Europe and South America this whole pandemic. Never once been checked, never once had his documents checked where his destination started. That’s airports and euro tunnel.
It is utter madness.

I couldn't understand why Boris didn't do an actual lock down last March and stop flights, ferries etc in and out of the UK

For the nth time just this morning - Because you need a lot of the things they bring into the UK.

People really really do need to stop assuming all vehicle/vessel/aircraft personnel movement into and out of the UK is leisure, holiday or even (shock horror) business meeting related.

A heck of a lot of it isn't.

[quote Rathmobhaile]@whatwouldscullydo - you're not an island you have a land border with The Republic of Ireland.

Its geographically impossible for the UK to close its borders completely as there are hundreds of crossings between Northern Ireland and The Republic of Ireland. Ireland hasn't been great either - our numbers are so high right now. With Brexit also happening - it would have been a political nightmare for Britain to co-ordinate with Ireland in acting together with one set of rules. With the British history with Ireland the Irish government could not have had any rules made by Britain imposed on them - that part of history is gone for both of our countries. The British Government would never have had Irish rules imposed on them. We're a smaller country and a part of the EU they've now left. Also - why would any country accept rules imposed on them made by a foreign government? It would be a minefield to figure that one out And so you had two neighbouring countries with a border thats impossible to close both for geographical and political reasons.[/quote]
I know Rathmobhaile but imagine if the two governments had actually had discussions together about how they could protect their populations by joint action?
I mean, that would have been sensible, wouldn't it?
Given the amount of trade and transit daily across the 'border' of course that couldn't stop (except for lockdowns, obviously) but making a bilateral decision on external border to GB and Ireland could have made an huge impact to transmission rates over the last nine, ten months.

Well, you’ve asked for opinions.

Firstly, we need imports and to export. Yes, it can be done by unaccompanied shipping containers but that is more expensive so we need the truckers going back and forth

People feel whatever is going on in their life is essential snd rules don’t apply. So you’ll have the thousands still flying about, followed by those complaining and signing petitions that whatever restrictions don’t make sense, they know better that it won’t make a difference, why can’t they go on holiday or travel for whatever reason when it’s only the old folk who die or catch it or whatever argument along that vein they want to use, it’s against their human rights, it’s only the wealthy ( or substitute whatever segment of people to rally against in the argument as it’s pick and mix) who travel so why can’t I, moving in to how horrible Boris is and it’s all his fault.

So truthfully, the government’s hands are tied from doing a total lock down and shutting off the country even if they found an economical way for goods to come in/go out without people accompanying the goods.

I’m sure you’re reading the boards and you’ll see all these arguments, and more, for anything that has been introduced to help control the virus..

@Rathmobhaile is right.

Look at the mess of Brexit. They couldn't even sort this out and has left NI in a mess for the moment.

The UK is not an island. Britain, Scotland and Wales are physically on an island. NI and Ireland are two countries sharing a single island.

Our government would have spent another year arguing to shut the borders, by then the population would have been vaccinated anyway.

I don’t know. I’ve known someone coming in and out of Europe and South America this whole pandemic. Never once been checked, never once had his documents checked where his destination started. That’s airports and euro tunnel.
It is utter madness.

Perhaps some people should take some responsibility. Everybody expect the government to sort everything out but what is this person travelling in and out during a pandemic. The advise is their from the government not to travel unless essential.

How would your plan fit with the terms of the Good Friday Agreement, @Singaporeslings?

Would you have exemptions for accompanied freight (including most food for UK & most imports to Ireland which use UK as landbridge)? What about people accompanying organ transplants or unique documents, scientific samples, imported animals -- what would your rules be for them? As well as other ship-ferry-airplane-lorry crew?

Oil platform workers -- how do they fit in this picture? Historically an awful lot of them are European-residents. 3 weeks on platform then back to UK; back to their families in Europe for 3 weeks, then back to platform on a regular cycle.

The WHO was saying that border closures were unnecessary. When Trump blocked flights everyone declared him 'racist'. The only people calling for border closures in the early stages of the pandemic were the likes of Farage. Once we were past the early stages, it was too late. And no, a New Zealand-style absolute quarantine policy isn't possible in the UK as we rely on accompanied freight.

@navyflask - I agree bilateral talks would have been sensible. However can you imagine the British government saying on one hand that they need to seoerate from the rest of Europe whilst also saying they need to work with their EU neighbour to act as one border effectively. Whilst in Ireland the government here announcing that after a long history of Britain being not welcome to rule Ireland we would now be acting as one border together. Neither population would have accepted that easily and I doubt any Irish or British population would have staked their political career on it.

@notimagain

I couldn't understand why Boris didn't do an actual lock down last March and stop flights, ferries etc in and out of the UK

For the nth time just this morning - Because you need a lot of the things they bring into the UK.

People really really do need to stop assuming all vehicle/vessel/aircraft personnel movement into and out of the UK is leisure, holiday or even (shock horror) business meeting related.

A heck of a lot of it isn't.

I know we need things to come into the UK. We don't need people flying in and out just because they want to though do we?

I am pretty sure we could allow lorries and flights that actually have items we need in and just not allow people to be gaily flying around the world.

He has never tried to do that and even now, when it is really too late, he faffs around and still doesn't bring in strict rules.

Imagine not knowing that you have a land border with a different country, and thinking you can just "close the borders" when you don't know what those borders are or how they work?

So many clueless people.,

This is what should have been done.
Rather than blaming the elderly for children being not educated and stuck inside.
There cant have been 20m uk citizens travelling this year our population is only 68m
I dont have a problem with people paying 1k plus.
I think our biggest issue would be uselessness and worse than oz we would keep having outbreaks.
I mean we should have known they intended to kill us all off when the bus drivers of those returning from cruises or wherever werent wearing masks.
Then they stuck them in a combined quarantine. To infect each other. Obviously a combined quarantine wont work!
Gov dont seem to understand they work for the people.

Covid is a huge conflict of interest i mean the gov pay the healthcare and pensions and accommodation of these elderly. It's not really in their interests to keep them alive. But otoh theyve spent a fortune now.
Same with the pensions/wages of the older teachers and hcp...

It rather suggests that we should have volunteers etc as mps they are all to busy at the trough

.

The UK is heavily dependent on imports from outside. You have seen what happens when borders were shut for just a few days before Christmas. For Covid you would have had to shut borders for 1.5 years. As soon as you put in exemptions (goods, residents, etc) you may as well not bother.

In any case currently internal transmissions are many times higher than any imported cases. So it really makes no sense to shut any borders (apart from placating the UKIP racists who like to blame it all on the "bloody foreigners").

What would make a difference is enforced and supervised quarantine for any (domestic) positive tests and their contacts. But I suspect that is not what the OP wanted...

Update, UK has now decided to close all travel corridors from Monday morning.

So to all the smug posters in this thread saying it would never happen what do you have to say for yourselves now eh?