Does the vaccination prevent or lessen the chance of Long Covid?

[DumplingsAndStew]

Just that really.

I know the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, but lessens the symptoms and (may) prevent transmission. But have their been any studies into whether it prevents Long Covid?

Surely too early

The vaccine MIGHT prevent you catching Covid, we don't know yet.

Actually we do now have preliminary data out of Israel showing that Pfizer/Moderna significantly reduce your chances of being infected with the virus, but do not prevent it completely

The vaccination prevents the vast majority of immunised people from developing symptoms. It would stand to reason that if you don’t develop symptoms, you won’t develop Long Covid, because Long Covid is defined by a prolonged recovery period and the retention of symptoms for longer than the initial infection period.

As an aside, I think that the terror over Long Covid really needs to be seen in context. When you read deeper into any of the articles about it, many people are claiming to have Long Covid based on taking a few weeks to recover and having some mildly debilitating fatigue and breathlessness or a lingering cough or loss of taste and smell for that period. Not nice, but really not the terrifying situation some are trying to make it out to be. Actual examples where people are significantly debilitated with fatigue and breathlessness and pain for months on end and showing no signs of imminent recovery are, thankfully, rare – and probably on a par with the post-viral syndromes many other viruses leave people with. The BMJ has concluded that Long Covid is most common in those who were hospitalised with the severest symptoms in the first place, and that about 10% of people who have tested positive experience a range of symptoms that last longer than three weeks and about 2% have symptoms which last longer than 12 weeks.

@ComtesseDeSpair

The vaccination prevents the vast majority of immunised people from developing symptoms. It would stand to reason that if you don’t develop symptoms, you won’t develop Long Covid, because Long Covid is defined by a prolonged recovery period and the retention of symptoms for longer than the initial infection period.

As an aside, I think that the terror over Long Covid really needs to be seen in context. When you read deeper into any of the articles about it, many people are claiming to have Long Covid based on taking a few weeks to recover and having some mildly debilitating fatigue and breathlessness or a lingering cough or loss of taste and smell for that period. Not nice, but really not the terrifying situation some are trying to make it out to be. Actual examples where people are significantly debilitated with fatigue and breathlessness and pain for months on end and showing no signs of imminent recovery are, thankfully, rare – and probably on a par with the post-viral syndromes many other viruses leave people with. The BMJ has concluded that Long Covid is most common in those who were hospitalised with the severest symptoms in the first place, and that about 10% of people who have tested positive experience a range of symptoms that last longer than three weeks and about 2% have symptoms which last longer than 12 weeks.

This

Plus it is starting to look like much of it is pscychosomatic.

Agree with @ComtesseDeSpair

Whilst nobody is denying long Covid exists and that it can be very debilitating for some for many months with pretty unique symptoms, the actual
3-12 week definition is quite short.
It can take a good 6 weeks to get over flu for example. Pleurisy, pneumonia can take months and months even a year. Glandular fever? That can be a long debilitating illness.

Many illnesses cause post viral fatigue that can last for months.

I do think there is too much fear over long Covid and this could cause people to hide away for years.

I don't see how anyone could possibly know that

The vaccine programme has only been running a few weeks, where would they have got any data from?

You test a large sample of the people who were vaccinated two weeks ago and you test a large sample of people who haven’t yet been vaccinated. Then you compare the two. Given that the virus is ripping through Israel at the moment you can get useable preliminary data very quickly.

@ComtesseDeSpair

The vaccination prevents the vast majority of immunised people from developing symptoms. It would stand to reason that if you don’t develop symptoms, you won’t develop Long Covid, because Long Covid is defined by a prolonged recovery period and the retention of symptoms for longer than the initial infection period.

As an aside, I think that the terror over Long Covid really needs to be seen in context. When you read deeper into any of the articles about it, many people are claiming to have Long Covid based on taking a few weeks to recover and having some mildly debilitating fatigue and breathlessness or a lingering cough or loss of taste and smell for that period. Not nice, but really not the terrifying situation some are trying to make it out to be. Actual examples where people are significantly debilitated with fatigue and breathlessness and pain for months on end and showing no signs of imminent recovery are, thankfully, rare – and probably on a par with the post-viral syndromes many other viruses leave people with. The BMJ has concluded that Long Covid is most common in those who were hospitalised with the severest symptoms in the first place, and that about 10% of people who have tested positive experience a range of symptoms that last longer than three weeks and about 2% have symptoms which last longer than 12 weeks.

That's interesting, thank you.

@Ch3rish

I don't see how anyone could possibly know that

The vaccine programme has only been running a few weeks, where would they have got any data from?

The vaccines have been in use, and being studied for many months.

Long COVID isnt one thing, it's a catch all term for anything that prevents a fast recovery from COVID. As the vaccine prevents serious illness it should stop people getting the types of long COVID caused by stays in icu and hopefully those caused by organ damage and permanent lung damage. For those who have PCs or ME type symptoms, who knows.

PVS

@Ch3rish

I don't see how anyone could possibly know that

The vaccine programme has only been running a few weeks, where would they have got any data from?

From the trials

I believe in Long Covid - but its not unusual for people to have "after effects" after a viral illness. My DD took at least 6 months to recover from glandular fever. There were long after effects from Spanish Flu.

Those who say it's all psychosomatic are in denial. Maybe it triggers an overreaction in the immune system causing something like Lupus? Maybe it causes permanent damage (my niece suffered hearing loss after glandular fever, a boy I knew lost his hearing after meningitis).

And we don't know yet how effective the vaccine will be against things like Long Covid - although if it prevents infection or reduces it it should help prevent the damage caused by the infection.

Just to say here - in some areas the vaccine is being offered by GPs at no notice at all. A relative has just had a phone call for a vaccination appointment for this afternoon about 3 miles away at a tavern but she doesn't think she can get there.

Those who say it's all psychosomatic are in denial. Maybe it triggers an overreaction in the immune system causing something like Lupus? Maybe it causes permanent damage (my niece suffered hearing loss after glandular fever, a boy I knew lost his hearing after meningitis)

There is no evidence it's psychosomatic at all. It's a nasty thing to say with no link to robust evidence when so many are suffering.

The vaccinne trials involved a relatively small number of people getting the vaccine of which a very small %age went on to catch covid and, when enough time has passed to see if any of them have "long covid" you'd be left with very few people

How would anyone draw a statistcally rigorous conclusion from that?

Maybe in years you'd have a large enough sample but that couldn't possibly be the case from vaccines that have only existed for a few months

One of the issues with long Covid is that so far studies have relied on self reporting of symptoms. Recently there was a lot of publicity over one study that did just that and included people who thought they had Covid in the first wave but didn't have a positive test to confirm it.

Long Covid is definitely a concern, but until we can get conclusive and meaningful data we can't make any conclusions about how concerned we should be.

@IloveJKRowling

Those who say it's all psychosomatic are in denial. Maybe it triggers an overreaction in the immune system causing something like Lupus? Maybe it causes permanent damage (my niece suffered hearing loss after glandular fever, a boy I knew lost his hearing after meningitis)

There is no evidence it's psychosomatic at all. It's a nasty thing to say with no link to robust evidence when so many are suffering.

Actually if you google it a lot of doctors are saying much of it could be psychosomatic. Where people believe they are still ill but are not. That doesn’t mean all of it. But it’s highly likely for some. Many people suffer from health anxiety or hypochondria, it’s a known mental health problem.

It is not out with the bounds of possibility that some people who catch Covid will mentally struggle to get over it, have health anxiety and believe they are ill for longer than they are and that fear or anxiety to result in things like breathlessness.

It’s not nasty to say what doctors are finding with some patients.

We also know for example plenty people imagine symptoms and declare they have it, when in reality it’s their anxiety, or hypochondria. Pretending it doesn’t happen is wrong.

Also it’s not “so many suffering” it’s a tiny percentage.

If you don’t contract Covid then you can’t get Long Covid Ch3rish.

The vaccine trials weren’t set up to test whether people were contracting the disease asymptomatically, so it was theoretically possible that vaccinated people in the trial were catching it at the same rate, being protected from detectable acute symptoms but still undergoing invisible effects which would lead to the same level of Long Covid down the line. Seems highly unlikely but not completely impossible.

However the Israel studies are checking whether people are contracting the disease asymptomatically, and they’re testing people in large numbers, in a country where the disease is otherwise more or less out of control. So they’re able to see evidence very quickly that the vaccine gives a degree of protection from infection rather than just suppressing symptoms.

I look around me and I see the sort of people who would get long Covid. I’m sure it’s real, too - but I think many people will claim to have it when they don’t.

Like the woman I knew who was a prison warden. She told me she was always tired, I asked if she had ME. She had never heard of it. Within a fortnight she was signed off work with ME.

She was off work for months, during which time she started an online business that involved physical exertion (personal trainer, taking Zumba classes with those glo-sticks) and took up several other hobbies including jogging. The problem with jogging is that you tend to do it outdoors, and living in a community where you’ve loudly pronounced your ME diagnosis and extended sick pay doesn’t go well if the same community sees you out jogging and advertising yourself as a personal trainer.

She was reported to the prison chief and after a long battle in which she also tried to claim discrimination, she lost her job.

I don’t think she’s contracted covid, but I’m pretty sure she’s a candidate for Long Covid.

I recall ZOE saying that people who had a wide variety of Covid symptoms were more likely to develop Long Covid. If you're less likely to catch it and will get a very mild version if you do, then Long Covid seems less likely. That's an assumption but doesn't seem an unreasonable one.

Countess, yes that’s the thing. A lot of people are very suggestible. Some like drama, others have significant health anxiety, others suffer from hypochondria.

The mind is a very powerful thing. About 4 percent of the population have health anxiety, the same percentage again suffer from hypochondria.

So you must then assume a percentage of people who get Covid suffer from significant health anxiety and or Hypochondria, as such, when you see two percent of patients have “long Covid” and it’s those typically very ill from it, you could see why a percentage would be in the psychosomatic category. Getting ill can and is traumatic. Couple that with mental health problems around getting ill. And you’re going to see people who believe they haven’t recovered. Even when they have.

There is a parliamentary debate today after recognition from BMJ and other health authorities to debate treatment and legislation for sufferers. There are an estimated 300,000 people in UK alone that are suffering. Many are young health professionals still off work/ in wheelchairs etc now in financial hardship.
This is very different to having anxiety etc.
This illness shows up on mris blood tests and other diagnostic tests.
If you a female auto immune sufferer you are more likely to have extreme inflammation and symptoms that persist. But it affects young and old alike.
Yep we all know an urban legend of a shirker who claims invisible illness, but to blanket this awful illness as hypochondria is at best offensive at worst dangerous.
But hey believe what you like while sufferers campaign to demostrate to ignorant people the realities.
I really hope you never get this or some other triggered secondary illness which is worse than the original.
Must be fab to be a healthy judgemental individual.