Does the vaccination prevent or lessen the chance of Long Covid?

[DumplingsAndStew]

Just that really.

I know the vaccine doesn't stop you catching Covid, but lessens the symptoms and (may) prevent transmission. But have their been any studies into whether it prevents Long Covid?

I don’t believe Long Covid is fictitious or, in most cases, psychosomatic. I also don’t believe that 300,000 people are suffering severely debilitating life-changing symptoms several months after infection and that “many” (what’s “many”? Half? A quarter?) of them are now confined to wheelchairs, having been perfectly fit and healthy beforehand. It doesn’t fit with any of the available data collected by reputable organisations such as the BMJ and NIHR. This kind of hyperbole is what switches people off.

But no one did blanket it as hypochondria. I was very careful with my words. In addition your numbers are wrong, it’s estimated at 150k, not three hundred.

Studies have shown approx 2 percent of infected individuals report Covid lasting longer than twelve weeks with main symptoms like breathlessness and fatigue.

Of those two percent an element were never very ill in the first place.

The point I am making is doctors are saying the studies are in their infancy and where as there is no dispute that some patients who were seriously ill may habe long term damage, there are also others where this will indeed be psychosomatic.

I don’t understand why some folks are getting upset by the thought. It doesn’t mean it is any less real to thr sufferer. And if you yourself suffer from health anxiety or hypochondria then you too might have “long Covid” even if you were never really ill in the first place, because mentally you are unwell. It’s ludicrous to suggest only mentally healthy people get Covid or that health anxiety or hypochondria is not feasible for some patients.

It’s clear that if a proportion are likely to have longer term post viral symptoms and that will be a larger number if a larger number of people are contracting a virus. And it’s worth noting that without minimising how debilitating it is, and how hard it is having the long term symptoms and a difficult recovery, it’s also going to be harder under current circumstances. There is always a psychological element to recovery from illness, just as there is from operations, from staying in hospital etc, and if the world seems dark and dreary and people around you are stressed and tired, and it’s hard to find things to be happy about, then the psychological struggle impedes the physical recovery too.

Wow, it's easy to forget how offensive and ableist people can be until you read a thread like this about disabled and chronically ill people being 'hypochondriacs'.

Of course health anxiety is a thing that affects a small amount of people, but genuine illness affects much, much more, so it's a bit strange to suggest that hypochondria is the more likely option.

Alongside other conditions, I suffer from POTS, which is an illness which long-covid seems to be triggering in a noticeable number of long covid sufferers. It can be proven through specific tests and is often debilitating. Unfortunately, I was told I was 'just a fainty type of person' for many many years by doctors who didn't know better and judged by people in society for being health-anxious. Now that POTS and my other conditions are widely understood, suddenly I'm legitimised.

Just because you knew one person who exaggerated an illness, it doesn't mean everyone else is too.

Sadly it has taken a pandemic with a novel virus for health organisations and politicians to take notice after ceaseless campaigning from sufferers for all post viral illnesses past and present to be recognised as legitimate as worthy of medical investigation. Largely due to health workers becoming severely ill. Women in particular who are gender predisposed to illnesses of this type have been fobbed off for years and gaslit by medics.
This is a good thing but far too little too late. With a second wave thousands more will be affected at least they will have recognition and worthy investigations.
Many people stay silent due to the stigma of people accusing them of attention seeking, anxiety and just not believing. Many just choose not to speak out for fear of losing job or having an ill informed doctor. The debate taking place today will highlight the need for further recognition and to stamp out the minimising.
I hope you realise how hard it is to fake illness when your hair falls out, you shit yourself, your heart rate goes through the roof on simply standing and your oxygen plummets to 84.
What we need is understanding and support people to find out the true stories. Then put themselves in their shoes.

Just because some doctors say it can be psychosomatic doesn't necessarily mean it is.
I can just imagine an elderly (male) doctor - "pull yourself together woman, you're just imagining it". This used to happen all the time to women.

You can't imagine heart or lung damage visible on a scan. I suspect many people suffering from breathlessness and fatigue post covid would turn out to have some damage visible by scan. Doctors don't really see covid as a respiratory illness in the way influenza is anymore.

So I would say the vaccine would reduce the change of long covid as I don't think the heart or lung damage would occur with vaccine induced immunity but as a consequence of cytokine storms/ uncontrolled viral replication.

@OhTinnitus

Wow, it's easy to forget how offensive and ableist people can be until you read a thread like this about disabled and chronically ill people being 'hypochondriacs'.

Of course health anxiety is a thing that affects a small amount of people, but genuine illness affects much, much more, so it's a bit strange to suggest that hypochondria is the more likely option.

Alongside other conditions, I suffer from POTS, which is an illness which long-covid seems to be triggering in a noticeable number of long covid sufferers. It can be proven through specific tests and is often debilitating. Unfortunately, I was told I was 'just a fainty type of person' for many many years by doctors who didn't know better and judged by people in society for being health-anxious. Now that POTS and my other conditions are widely understood, suddenly I'm legitimised.

Just because you knew one person who exaggerated an illness, it doesn't mean everyone else is too.

Wow, becayse none of this was said. Literally. Either you’re responding to the wrong thread, habe failed to read the posts properly or have had such a strong emotional reaction to the suggestion you’ve dived off the deep end screaming.

The vaccination prevents the vast majority of immunised people from developing symptoms. It would stand to reason that if you don’t develop symptoms, you won’t develop Long Covid

That might be your definition of it, but other post viral fatigue conditions do not require symptoms, so I don't see why long covid should either.

Studies have shown approx 2 percent of infected individuals report Covid lasting longer than twelve weeks with main symptoms like breathlessness and fatigue

This is one of the most annoying things about post viral conditions, they end up with near enough identical symptoms to those that happen if you simply become sedentary for a few weeks (maybe 'cos you're sick with a respiratory virus!) which is why it's historically so easy to dismiss and difficult to diagnose, some of the cases are nothing but that - not all of them though and treatment would likely be different.

Comtesse that is not right at all. There are fb groups of people affected.
Headaches
Stomach issues/gi
Muscle twitches
Insomnia
Tachycardia
Etc etc

33k members on one group
A lot of these people are from apr and dont feel right.

So ridiculous so its the same with pims then lol? That cant be real or covid related by your logic as the kid had some 0 symptoms and most werent tested at the time as they werent ill.

I think it's obviously true covid can have later effects even if you didnt know you had it
. Some people may have had something else. Especially with gp services shut. Some will have cancer etc
Some of the long term effects of spanish flu were parkiinons like.
I had long issues after glandular fever swollen neck glands for years.and seemed to catch ever single ting going around. Not sure if i got better or used to it.

Hopefully there will be fewer long covid this peak as generally people are getting allowed into hospital more. Obviously not giving people o2 when they needed it last march probably hasnt helped lost of.people.

Bluntness, you just responded to a PP who gave a specific example of someone faking a chronic illness and who said "I think many people will claim to have it when they don’t"

with

"yes that’s the thing. A lot of people are very suggestible. Some like drama, others have significant health anxiety, others suffer from hypochondria."

I find the thread overall very interesting and don't doubt that some people will worry that they have long covid when they don't, but for that person to say MANY people will claim to have it when they don't, and completely dismiss the lived experience of people suffering from whatever illness it is, is unfair. It's a very privileged position,to dismiss the experience of people that you have no knowledge of, one that some healthy people can't recognise.

I find it interesting that, as a disabled and chronically unwell person whomerely gave my own opinion and account of lived experience of an illness that is also effecting some people with long-covid, you immediately claim I've either misread the thread or am "screaming".

Some people like to give out a strong opinion only to shout an attack when challenged. Its no wonder that an adult factual debate is so hard with posters like these. Spouting heresay like its fact despite overwhelming evidence to contradict. Bit like Trump supporters I suppose ill informed and defensive when challenged. Shame.

@OhTinnitus

Bluntness, you just responded to a PP who gave a specific example of someone faking a chronic illness and who said "I think many people will claim to have it when they don’t"

with

"yes that’s the thing. A lot of people are very suggestible. Some like drama, others have significant health anxiety, others suffer from hypochondria."

I find the thread overall very interesting and don't doubt that some people will worry that they have long covid when they don't, but for that person to say MANY people will claim to have it when they don't, and completely dismiss the lived experience of people suffering from whatever illness it is, is unfair. It's a very privileged position,to dismiss the experience of people that you have no knowledge of, one that some healthy people can't recognise.

I find it interesting that, as a disabled and chronically unwell person whomerely gave my own opinion and account of lived experience of an illness that is also effecting some people with long-covid, you immediately claim I've either misread the thread or am "screaming".

I think you’re arguing semantics. Many doesn’t mean all.

Most of the list of long covid symptoms are also an indicator of chronic/acute stress. Something we have all been suffering from since last March.
Most of the early long covid sufferers were never positively diagnosed so would be rejected by any study. I can understand long covid being applied to those who spent a few weeks in ICU with organ failure etc.
I suspect that the “worried well “ have high jacked long Covid to add to the list of may haves when they attend their weekly GP appointment.

@Delatron

Agree with *@ComtesseDeSpair*

Whilst nobody is denying long Covid exists and that it can be very debilitating for some for many months with pretty unique symptoms, the actual
3-12 week definition is quite short.
It can take a good 6 weeks to get over flu for example. Pleurisy, pneumonia can take months and months even a year. Glandular fever? That can be a long debilitating illness.

Many illnesses cause post viral fatigue that can last for months.

I do think there is too much fear over long Covid and this could cause people to hide away for years.

I couldnt agree more.

There is nothing "unique" about long covid- MANY people experience post viral fatigue. My dad got glandular fever after the flu and it took him months to recover. I'd say almost a year to get back to normal.
Post viral fatigue is not a brand new or novel thing that has only just emerged, we've known about it for years and years.

Its not just post viral fatigue. Its a virus that attacks every part of the human body via cells. Post viral fatigue does not lead to lupus/MS/ diabetes kidney, vascular heart and lung problems. Please do your research before you stick it with this label! It leads to strokes, heart attacks even in the young. Its like saying covid is only flu. I despair I really do

There’s no “only” about flu, it can be extremely dangerous and deadly

@Mintypylonsfryingsurplus exactly. It's a infection that affects every body system. Some scientists are claiming it's a vascular disease rather than respiratory. Peop!e with only mild symptoms initially can have myocarditis, AKI or liver dysfunction further down the line. There was a study that claimed a considerable minority had undetected inlammation of heart muscle.
For an infection that's only been around a year love it how some speak so assuredly. But somehow it's always to minimize people's experience of the illness.....

I'm going to unfollow this thread now as, sadly, its turned into another thread about how those with invisible chronic illness are often seen by many as malingerers, hypochondriacs who love drama.

Thank you to those who posted genuine, reasoned comments.

My long covid symptoms are largely of the PVS variety.

For the first couple of months post infection this presented as a heavy episode of fatigue and brain fog with a hoarse voice. These occurred weekly, then every ten days, the fortnightly so on. It looked like it was fading away and I was able to exercise, even heavily.

But come autumn I started to get episodes more frequently, but more mildly, and my ability to exercise declined. For the past three months I've had 10+ episodes a month, in line with ovulation and my period.