To burst all of these bloody bubbles

[kirktonhouse]

A single person can bubble with one single other household, yes, I get it, it's really useful for those living alone, however there are so many other bloody fake bubbles.

Single elderly parents having 'bubbles' with every one of their children's families

Work bubbles

School bubbles (different in the morning and the afternoon)

Sport bubbles (stupid fucking footballers)

Camping bubbles (yes really, some friends in the summer)

Play bubbles (with whoever happens to be at the park/beach)

Dog walk bubbles

You can't call everyday life a fucking bubble. Just stop seeing so many bloody people and calling it a bubble to pretend that it's ok when it really, really isn't.

I feel better for that. I'm going back to my miserable bastard bubble, does anyone want to join me?

I have 2 daughters. One of them is a teacher and has 2 children under 5 (the 5 year old would obviously usually be at school but not at the moment) My OH and I are in a childcare bubble for her and look after her children a couple of days a week so she can continue to teach key worker and vulnerable children

My other daughter is single and lives alone and suffers from anxiety and depression. We are in a support bubble with her. So we have 2 bubbles but they both have one. As far as I understand it that is permitted.

Sadly the wards are full of people who had perfectly legal bubbles, often multi-generational.

SinkGirl not forgotten, no. And there have always been exceptions to the rules for vulnerable/disabled people. For example , you are allowed to make compassionate visits to vulnerable people you're not bubbled with if they need help with something they physically can't manage or are struggling mentally. I know this as I have disabled relatives I visit when needed for this reason, only when necessary, which is within the rules.

We need to keep uppermost in our minds that supprt bubbling means no social distancing measures are required by the rules and yet often these bubble bring vulnerable people together with those who pose a risk to them, even if they also give support. And childcare bubbles should not be bringing adults within them together anymore than is required to drop off or pick up the children involved. Granny should not be looking after baby in her daughter's home while daughter works in the same house and they all have lunch together if they're only in a childcare bubble for example.

Everyone needs to bubble not only to the max the rules allow but what is safe at an individual and societal level. Transmission happens whether you're bubbled or not!

@Watermelon999

Sadly the wards are full of people who had perfectly legal bubbles, often multi-generational.

And sadly, mental health services are currently drowning under the weight of those who have been forced to live in isolation for months on end. But only Covid matters, eh?

And the wards are also full of those who are working to provide you with groceries, or ensure your electricity supply is working, or that you have clean water, or that your internet connection is working so that you can work in from home, or who are policing your streets, or providing care to the elderly etc. Bet you don’t want them to stop doing that, do you?

@Amidone

SinkGirl not forgotten, no. And there have always been exceptions to the rules for vulnerable/disabled people. For example , you are allowed to make compassionate visits to vulnerable people you're not bubbled with if they need help with something they physically can't manage or are struggling mentally. I know this as I have disabled relatives I visit when needed for this reason, only when necessary, which is within the rules.

We need to keep uppermost in our minds that supprt bubbling means no social distancing measures are required by the rules and yet often these bubble bring vulnerable people together with those who pose a risk to them, even if they also give support. And childcare bubbles should not be bringing adults within them together anymore than is required to drop off or pick up the children involved. Granny should not be looking after baby in her daughter's home while daughter works in the same house and they all have lunch together if they're only in a childcare bubble for example.

Everyone needs to bubble not only to the max the rules allow but what is safe at an individual and societal level. Transmission happens whether you're bubbled or not!

Yes, forgotten when you say that support bubbles should only be two single adult households joining together. Changing the rules to this would screw over parents of young disabled children or those with disabled partners who are currently able to form support bubbles under the rules.

What you’re talking about - ad hoc visits to vulnerable people by whomever when needed - is less safe than forming a support bubble properly.

As I’ve already said on this thread, people should not do it just because they can - they should only do it if they can’t manage without it. But parents of disabled children and carers generally have been totally screwed over in the last year, most of their respite or support disappeared into thin air. So yes, your comment advocates removing that support

Agree
We are seeing not a soul
Apart from shopkeepers !!
I’m on
London and I’m not risking it

And the wards are also full of those who are working to provide you with groceries, or ensure your electricity supply is working, or that you have clean water, or that your internet connection is working

Totally 1000% agree . But as I can avoid human contact I am going to
So that the care is there for them

SinkGirl no, I would change what is allowed to say that other than in cases where there is a disabled child or adult involved, or a child under the age of 1, support bubbles should only involve two single adults. It's really that simple. Exceptions can and have been made previously to an otherwise tighter general rule and they can and should be again.

The problem is that too many people who have no real need for a bubble are forming one just because the rules allow. And also where they don't as per the OP's example.

Totally 1000% agree . But as I can avoid human contact I am going to
So that the care is there for them

And that’s great, it really is. But my mum, who lives alone, can’t avoid human contact without it putting her in a very very dark place mentally, so she bubbles with us.

I agree with this to an extent- but I hate the way everyone is blaming each other for everything. I feel like the government have been quite clever turning everyone against each other to cover up the many and huge strategic errors they have made, not to mention the whole Dominic Cummings debacle.

I’m sticking to the rules now, but have bent them in the past. The catalyst for my rule breaking was when DC wasn’t held to account for his flagrant rule/law(?) breaking. The many u turns don’t help either.

support bubbles should only involve two single adults.

But how does that work in reality?
Does a single person need to seek out another single person?
Or can it be one person from another family, but then there's indirect contact anyway?

Fortunately MNetters are not in charge and I do actually trust the government on this one. They've said support bubbles will remain and for now I believe them. I think even they know that removing them would be much worse than the risk of a few people exploiting them.

@Amidone

Abraxan

For example, it allows couples who live separately and alone to spend time together. Because to force couple to have no close social contact for months on end isn't practical.

A couple who live together can't bubble with just anyone though, only with someone who lives alone. So it's of very limited use. Not all couples will have someone they can bubble with within the rules and so will be stuck.

Well I was talking about couple who live separately. So in many cases it does help people out. Only one of them needs to be a single adult household in order to bubble.

For example,
Person A is a single adult household with a child
Person B is a single adult household with 2 children but has a childcare bubble where they drop,off their children each working day.
They can bubble together as person A is a single adult household.

@Amidone

SinkGirl not forgotten, no. And there have always been exceptions to the rules for vulnerable/disabled people. For example , you are allowed to make compassionate visits to vulnerable people you're not bubbled with if they need help with something they physically can't manage or are struggling mentally. I know this as I have disabled relatives I visit when needed for this reason, only when necessary, which is within the rules.

We need to keep uppermost in our minds that supprt bubbling means no social distancing measures are required by the rules and yet often these bubble bring vulnerable people together with those who pose a risk to them, even if they also give support. And childcare bubbles should not be bringing adults within them together anymore than is required to drop off or pick up the children involved. Granny should not be looking after baby in her daughter's home while daughter works in the same house and they all have lunch together if they're only in a childcare bubble for example.

Everyone needs to bubble not only to the max the rules allow but what is safe at an individual and societal level. Transmission happens whether you're bubbled or not!

Rules specifically state children can be looked after in either home under the childcare bubble rules.

The government website literally says 'You can form a support bubble with another household of any size.' It does NOT have to be two single households, only one of them have to be a single adult household.

So for example, a single mother with two children can form a support bubble with a household that contains one, two, three, four, six adults etc. This is legal.

www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a-support-bubble-with-another-household

Rules specifically state children can be looked after in either home under the childcare bubble rules

But not be used for socialising. I suspect a lot of the people in 'childcare bubbles' will also be sharing food and drink, spending time together and being in close contact, rather than just dropping off DC or leaving the house as Granny arrives to watch DC.

Oh my I’ve found my place.
Bubbles are necessary for only a very small amount of people. I get that. I really do.
But Jesus. The amount of people who have multiple bubbles and then say they aren’t mixing - yes you are! YOU are mixing across the bubbles like bloody normal life. And then they wonder why people are getting infected.
Boils my p

@SinkGirl

I understand that your children are still young, but you can't complain about being "forgotten about" when even you consistently talk about the need for parents of "young children" with disabilities. What about older children, teenagers and young adults with disabilities? Young children with disabilities grow into older children and adults with disabilities. Currently the guidelines allow for bubbling in the case of disabled children under the age of 5. You aren't the one who has been "forgotten about".

"SinkGirl no, I would change what is allowed to say that other than in cases where there is a disabled child or adult involved, or a child under the age of 1, support bubbles should only involve two single adults."

When there are disabled children or adults involved then whatever care and support is required is allowed. And in many cases that will be the person supporting being around the entire family. We having a severely disabled teenager who requires 2:1 support are not allowed a support bubble but we use whatever support is needed and that is allowed.

Many people in our situation will now be caring 24/7 with no outside official help and it is only right that they take whatever support they need including support for themselves, to survive.

Anyone banging on about guidelines etc in this situation has no clue.

My entire frickin street and their kids seem to think they're in a sodding bubble. Stood out in the street at all hours socialising, kids playing together. Bloody sick of it. Meanwhile I've seen no one but my husband and daughter since Christmas day.

People are taking the piss to the extreme.

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@SinkGirl

I understand that your children are still young, but you can't complain about being "forgotten about" when even you consistently talk about the need for parents of "young children" with disabilities. What about older children, teenagers and young adults with disabilities? Young children with disabilities grow into older children and adults with disabilities. Currently the guidelines allow for bubbling in the case of disabled children under the age of 5. You aren't the one who has been "forgotten about".[/quote]
I absolutely and fully agree with you and have written to my MP on this issue - I think the under 5 rule is utterly ludicrous, as if having a severely disabled child over 5 doesn’t mean you need support. It’s disgraceful.

My bubble is bloody massive and there’s not much I can do about it. I just have my partner at home but I’m a Nanny for two families, 6 children, 4 adults and the teenagers in family 1 are allowed to meet one other person (no distancing). I can’t social distance with the children in my job. The bubble has not burst even with the kids at school but if it does it’s a big bubble I’m taking down and my partner works outside of the home (but does his job solo no contact with others) so there’s that risk of him needing to be off and on SSP.

Then there’s the cleaners also coming into their homes...

And I’m not the only nanny. I know a nanny working between (within) 3 bubbles. Nothing we can do because childcare is allowed. I feel like the families (who know each other) will be angry with me if they have to isolate because of a case in the other family though.

Thank you for your support @SinkGirl and for being one of few who are actually taking action to help those affected, whilst not directly affected yourself. It means a lot

tappitytaptap yes children can be looked after in either house but as I said in my post which you clearly didn't read properly, the adults in the house, whichever one is being used, are not meant to have contact while childcare is being done but I'm sure plenty do, while also having another bubble on the go. That's the issue. That is exactly the sort of flexing of the rules that is causing problems.

@DumplingsAndStew

Thank you for your support *@SinkGirl* and for being one of few who are actually taking action to help those affected, whilst not directly affected yourself. It means a lot

I do apologise if my comments upset you - I only reference young disabled children because at the moment they’re the ones covered by the guidance (and disabled adults too I suppose if there’s only one non-disabled adult in the house) - I know so many parents of disabled children 5-18 going through absolute hell and totally deserve their need for support to be formally recognised. Sending to you and hoping this horrible time passes soon!