Learner drivers - Legal experts help required.

[Comefromaway]

Can anyone point me to the actual legislation whether it be the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 3) Regulations 2020 and 2021 amendments or the Road Traffic Act or Motor Vehicles (Driving Licence) Regulations or anything else, where it says that a Learner Driver cannot drive at all, even if making an essential journey with a member of their own household.

Eg. if I give my child a lift to work according to gov.uk & various people’s interpretations including a local 6th form, they cannot be the driver.

But I can’t find any actual legislation that says that.

Oh great, the government have found another way of shafting young people during this pandemic.

This. With bells on.

Conversation on Twitter from Annalisa Barbieri, insurers and lawyer Adam Wagner tagged in so hopefully an answer soon mobile.twitter.com/AnnalisaB

itsGoingTibiak

I think it's another case of guidance vs. legislation - and so it is a moral decision rather than a legal one.

^^I would love a definitive answer about this but no idea where to find out.

Following with interest.
Might ring our insurance company- has a second month purchased.

The concern is whether insurance is valid if you go against the guidance. It could have horrendous consequences.

Just one more shit thing to add to the pile of shit things .
I know a lot is going on in the world right now that is worse but bloody hell to be a 16/17/18 Yr old right now is tough.

It's so annoying isn't it @nohomeschooltoday I had mine cancelled first in April and then in November - it's scheduled again for mid-March but my theory runs out at the end of June so I'm praying it doesn't get cancelled again or I fail!

They've got to have some provision for theory tests running out through no fault of your own.

I’m interested in this too as DS went out with DH earlier on today

I'll be watching this thread with interest - daughter started driving lessons last term and had made a good start so we'd been planning when to get her in our car. Only the other day we were discussing that having her drive me to the supermarket could make sense (not choosing the one with a very narrow exit lane, at least to start with!!).

I guess we will hold off on getting the L plates and sorting the insurance... She will be disappointed.

@TabbyStar yes we have the app it’s how she got her original test for November. We are hoping this lockdown ends (sort of) March and will utilise it again. Originally we wanted it to before alevel exams least we don’t have that to worry about.
Madness test ready since early last year :(

It's guidance:

Can I go for a drive with someone from my household?
When Boris Johnson addressed the nation on Monday night, he set out the specific reasons people would be allowed to leave their houses during lockdown. These are:

– Buying essential shopping and medical supplies
– Going to work or providing voluntary/ charitable services if unable to do so from home
– Exercising, either alone, with your household or support bubble, or with one other person
– Meeting with your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, if you are legally permitted to form one
– To seek medical attention or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
– Attending education or childcare, for those eligible. Schools are to remain closed until February half term, apart from to children of those deemed to be critical workers.

The DVSA told Driving.co.uk that it is currently in the process of updating its guidance in relation to the rules about driving with supervision. A spokesperson said: “Government guidance during the lockdown is to stay at home so private driving practise in England is not advised until the restrictions are lifted.”

In Scotland and Wales, however, the current advice says that you may practice driving as long as you are on an essential journey and accompanied by a full licence holder from your household or support bubble. Be aware that if you are caught driving without a reason for being out of your house, you may be fined.

It does seem to be guidance not law, but the insurance issue is an important one.

The Covid threads have taught me that all manner of things on Giovanni.uk is legally incorrect.

I know, some of it is also very badly worded. I do love the idea of a Giovanni.uk, though!
Hope you find a definitive answer, op.

@TabbyStar

They've got to have some provision for theory tests running out through no fault of your own.

Yes this needs to be sorted out. Maybe they could give all theory tests an extra year's validity.

@HunkyPunk

The Covid threads have taught me that all manner of things on Giovanni.uk is legally incorrect.

I know, some of it is also very badly worded. I do love the idea of a Giovanni.uk, though!
Hope you find a definitive answer, op.

I saw the autocorrection as soon as I’d posted! Agree that would be a great website!

It does seem to be guidance not law, but the insurance issue is an important one.

I've taken a screen shot of our insurers advice as a precaution....

Nope they don't @TabbyStar, they've been very clear despite loads of petitions they have no interest in extending them or offering another for free (even though I shouldn't have to, I'd take it again happily if I didn't have to pay for it). They say it's due to health and safety and the law stating you must do test within 2 years but they managed to change MOTs and license renewals and lots of other laws which are based around health and safety. Honestly what really pisses me off as well is I really NEED a car to get DS places, I didn't spend hundreds if not a thousand learning for fun, I don't particularly enjoy it but we're not safe on public transport due to SN nevermind covid. I have to rely on others any time we need to go anywhere including both of our regular hospital appointments which are miles away, and food shopping, which would be loads easier and safer covid-and-everything-else-wise if I had a car. Sorry to hijack the thread OP I'm so stressed about this, it's like they don't realise it's not just teenagers whinging, it actually impacts a lot of others too (not that younger people deserve to be shafted either!).

Its been all over facebook and its on gov site , only applies for england and is now a petition doing the rounds

I've (along with others in my situation) basically had half the time on my theory that other drivers have had. I'd welcome an extra 6 months even if it was guaranteed I'd get a test in that time.

I think there might not be any specific law. However the law is that you must not leave or be outside of your home except where you have a ‘reasonable excuse’. And that applies to each individual.

In many scenarios there is no reasonable excuse for the learner to be out, the supervising driver could just do the journey by themselves.

But if there is a reasonable excuse for them to be out, yeah, I'd like to see what law prohibits them from driving. Especially in the case that the supervising driver is not themselves insured to drive the car.

The guidance on the .gov website is absolutely clear on this with no interpretation required. Why not just follow it?

@MummytoCSJH

Nope they don't *@TabbyStar*, they've been very clear despite loads of petitions they have no interest in extending them or offering another for free (even though I shouldn't have to, I'd take it again happily if I didn't have to pay for it). They say it's due to health and safety and the law stating you must do test within 2 years but they managed to change MOTs and license renewals and lots of other laws which are based around health and safety. Honestly what really pisses me off as well is I really NEED a car to get DS places, I didn't spend hundreds if not a thousand learning for fun, I don't particularly enjoy it but we're not safe on public transport due to SN nevermind covid. I have to rely on others any time we need to go anywhere including both of our regular hospital appointments which are miles away, and food shopping, which would be loads easier and safer covid-and-everything-else-wise if I had a car. Sorry to hijack the thread OP I'm so stressed about this, it's like they don't realise it's not just teenagers whinging, it actually impacts a lot of others too (not that younger people deserve to be shafted either!).

Hi-jack and rant away.

We are so lucky dd passed just before lockdown as dh surrendered his licence due to a medical condition and with us both being keyworkers she’s been able to help out so much with lifts and shopping etc etc.

Ds turns 17 next month and him driving as well would make things even easier.

I think it’s awful they aren’t at least offering free theory retakes.

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats

The guidance on the .gov website is absolutely clear on this with no interpretation required. Why not just follow it?

Because guidance isn’t law.

I think may hear more in this tomorrow as seems people only picked up today and that includes insurance companies.
I have signed petition as ds been learning and planned to out him on car just to get him to drive to supermarket shop for collection And on other essential journeys as even if only once a week better than him doing nothing .

@comefromfaraway it may not be law that we know of but have you spoken to your insurer ? As if they say it makes insurance void then it would be illegal