Trigger warning!!! - extremely sad child related. Why nurseries can only close if furlough is guaranteed

[JanewaysBun]

Don't think this is a duplicate thread, sorry if it is!

With nurseries possibly being closed we must ensure that furlough is legally guaranteed to one parent for child staying at home.

The below is really really sad (child accident related), this really stuck a chord with me and has made me feel so sad.

Last summer a 18 mo died after his mother was trying to WFH and provide childcare. In no way blaming this poor woman whom I assume was simply trying to earn money to feed her DC as well as looking after them

Basicslly she was on a long conference call and the child escaped the house and tragically died in a hot tub. This has really resonated with me, children are NOT safe if a parent is attempting to WFH whilst looking after them. Imo should nurseries close, everyone should be legally entitled to furlough if they are the main childcaring parent.

Also imo this should be up to age maybe 7 (mine are 2 and 1 so not sure at what age they can sit still for 2 mins so feel free to correct)
www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/01/baby-drowned-hot-tub-mother-working-home-inquest-hears/amp/

So in short if nurseries need to close which I accept they might we need to provide something In place to keep them safe at home.

Also aware furlough (80%?) Will cause some people to get into financial difficulty so definitely need to have something extra in place for these people.

I will probably resign if I have to "work" whilst with a 2 and 1 yo (DH works 14+ hour days and basically earns all our money so no point making him take some sort of leave as his wage pays the bills!) And most toddlers i know dont sleep enough to allow the parent to work in that time! But aware most people are not in this fortunate position.

That’s so sad. I agree OP I think something needs to be in place to protect the jobs of parents and ensure they can continue to function. The difficult would be for families like ours where I am a key worker but am part time and earn significantly less than DH. I’d want to be furloughed as financially it would work better for our family however work would be loathe to furlough me or would refuse. Where do we stand then? It’s impossible for parents of small children at the moment.

Yes totally understand there will be many in your position as key workers have been undervalued for so long. I think you should (by law) be able to nominate who the child caring parent will be who then gets furloughed regardless of the job

The company I work for gives paid leave to parents who have been forced to homeschool or have no access to nursery places but not every company will be in a position to do this and should be paid for by the tax payer.

That's good to hear!
From parents with school age DC sounds like mine does not even though they definitely could as it's a massive, very financially successful company. The government could definitely put a bit of pressure on companies like mine to be seem to be doing the right thing.

18 months is far too young to be left unattended. No other comment to make and not criticising anyone here, just saying really.

@CaughtInTheCovid

That’s so sad. I agree OP I think something needs to be in place to protect the jobs of parents and ensure they can continue to function. The difficult would be for families like ours where I am a key worker but am part time and earn significantly less than DH. I’d want to be furloughed as financially it would work better for our family however work would be loathe to furlough me or would refuse. Where do we stand then? It’s impossible for parents of small children at the moment.

Yes I agree. My team are not classed as key workers but we do a vital job and are very busy at the moment. One of my very small team has had to drop a day now as has 2 young children, but where does that leave us, she can't be furloughed as there is plenty of work to do but can't do the work and look after kids, so our manager just seems to let her do less work which to be honest isn't really fair on others.

It's such a hard position for people to be in. The problem is though that a lot of companies can't just furlough people, they need their workers or will go under, then no furlough for anyone anyway. What if 20% of their workforce had to be furloughed? It's just not doable for many companies. Unfortunately it will end up negatively affecting parents of young children as no one will employ them and if looking to make redundancies they will be the first to go. Nurseries need to stay open really, although there is no good solution.

I think this makes a strong case for open nurseries. Many companies won't furlough (my workplace does not take personal circumstances into consideration). Also, many companies needs employees with young children to run operations. Also, in the long run, this would only negatively affect the employability of parents.

working parents with young/disabled children who need a lot of supervision need access to childcare/school. there is nothing else.

@Plasticfish

18 months is far too young to be left unattended. No other comment to make and not criticising anyone here, just saying really.

Well obviously but what was she supposed to do? That’s the point. Children are going to get themselves into difficulty as they won’t be fully supervised because desperate parents are spreading themselves too thinly. That’s exactly the concern OP is expressing.

The constant criticism and cry from (generally childless) people of close the nurseries, key workers only, if you’re working from home you can have your children there is just adding to the stress and exhaustion of parents at the moment. The situation is hideous, never ending and to be honest creates resentment as the risk of covid to most parents and small children is very low compared to the awful impact of the lockdown. I’m fed up with people who’s children have happily gone through school and had a lovely normal childhood criticising parents for allowing their children to meet one other child at the park or taking them to the supermarket to allow them some time out of the house.

I agree that you can’t wfh with very young children. I agree there should be a tighter lockdown. If nurseries close, I would want to keep my child at home.

But: I am now classed as a critical worker, so I wouldn’t get furloughed. Bollocks am I a critical worker! I work in policy in a university. No-one needs me urgently. So do I claim a key worker nursery place, or try to work with a two year old underfoot and fail?

I agree it's not reasonable to expect a parent to wfh and look after a pre-school child. But I'd suggest that partially furloughing both parents (if not a single parent family) should be the model that is aimed for. otherwise this will likely fall disproportionately on women.

I totally agree with furlough (or partial furlough if the critical worker is pt) for non-critical workers with young children.

If the science shows we need less pupils attending primary and nurseries to close to non-KW/V children then their parents need to be able to look after them and still be able to survive financially.

I also think the 'critical worker' criteria needs tightening, and I think public sector departments who can survive without some staff should be allowed to furlough as well.

Partial furlough needs to be more of a thing. DH works for an engineering firm, some of their work is critical (food production, sewage, dialysis machines), but not all of it. I'm a teacher, so DD would need a nursery place, but if he could be partially furloughed and only do the really important bits we could drastically cut down our reliance on the nursery.

I like @RedskyAtnight idea of partial furlough of both parents. There needs to be flexibility to encourage not just women, who are more likely to be lower paid/part time/critical workers take the hit.

Give people the tools to split the burden between parents.

My colleagues 2 year old fell down the stairs over last lockdown and she and her partner were both trying to wfh and homeschool. They are both public sector keyworkers as it happens but nursery wasn’t open

And furlough not possible for public sector is don’t think

@flattyres

I think this makes a strong case for open nurseries. Many companies won't furlough (my workplace does not take personal circumstances into consideration). Also, many companies needs employees with young children to run operations. Also, in the long run, this would only negatively affect the employability of parents.

working parents with young/disabled children who need a lot of supervision need access to childcare/school. there is nothing else.

I totally agree with you and I think its probably the reason England have kept the nurseries open.

Nobody can realistically work with babies, 1, 2 or 3 yos in the house. At 4 or 5 they are marginally better, although it's still neglect.

My 4yo has hardly been out the door this week, dark by the time we finish work and we are lucky to get 30mins for lunch.

I really wish I could trust his big brother to take him out and look after him but....

We can't afford to have people whose jobs are essential to their companies on furlough as this would cause many of the companies to go bust as it puts companies in an impossible position where they are short staffed for an indefinite amount of time and unable to recruit to cover it. A much better approach would be to force companies to allow work to be completed 7 days a week and into the evening where ever possible and enforce the maximum working week of 48 hours. Unfortunately everyone has to make sacrifices and in the case of most parents that should include not expecting a traditional weekend and spreading work across 7 days.

@Lockdownbear
The whole point of lockdown is that people should hardly be going out of the door so stop acting as though your child not being able to do so is an injustice.

I agree with the option of partial furlough of 1 or complete furlough of 1 whichever suits the family.

I just find it ridiculous that there's a notion that children will be adequately cared for with a patent working whilst caring. This one child died but I'm sure there were many serious injuries too that went unreported.

Alternatively a policy where you can take unpaid leave (in top of the parental leave that is available). For e.g. my job pays less than nursery so I'm only.really working to keep it going but i could volunteer to withdraw my DC for say 6 months if my job would be made available to me go in my return. I'm sure there's many like me and that would decrease some of the burden (my company would normally this as they don't offer any sort of unpaid leave but are great in other ways)

But: I am now classed as a critical worker, so I wouldn’t get furloughed. Bollocks am I a critical worker! I work in policy in a university. No-one needs me urgently. So do I claim a key worker nursery place, or try to work with a two year old underfoot and fail?

I agree with this. The gov't definition needs tightening, and there needs to be an acknowledgement that financial support is needed if nurseries are to close. I'm currently keeping DD off, and juggling work around her. Wealthier friends are doing likewise. Poorer friends are keeping their DC in and praying they don't get the call that there's been a positive case because in some instances they've have to resign it'd be that untenable. Nurseries my way are reporting cases quite frequently.

(I'm mentioning wealth because, you know, keeping your child off while paying full whack for nursery is just brilliant.)

StatisticalSense
So on one hand your saying people shouldn't be furloughed but so you fully accept children should spend the week in front of the telly.
Do you honestly think that's right for young children?

@JanewaysBun
If you can do without your income you can always resign. Companies cannot afford to have long term gaps in staffing that they are unable to fill so expecting to be able to keep your job open for several months is unrealistic (the only reason companies can afford to do it for maternity leaves is that the numbers on leave at once are typically extremely small).

@JanewaysBun I agree with your original post. I'm not sure nurseries should close because I think there's other stuff to crack down on first that's much less important ('essential' retail that's really not essential)", for example) but if they do close I agree with the recognition that there needs to be mandatory furlough for the child caring adult. Our work have now decided they 'aren't furloughing' any more and so I would have to leave, which doesn't seem right when some employers are furloughing for childcare reasons and the government are encouraging it. Our work are asking people to juggle but it's not realistic.

I really feel for this article, definitely wasn't concentrating on my toddler when I worked in lockdown one, and whilst I was always within a few metres she still had some falls and head bumps that could have been presented if I wasn't working and also could have been nasty.