Sir Keir Starmer calling for nursery closure!

[Boogie5678]

Sorry I’m not sure how to link this but it’s on BBC news.

[quote TheKeatingFive]Please tell me how this is Labour’s fault.

He’s inviting more cases like this

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/01/baby-drowned-hot-tub-mother-working-home-inquest-hears/amp/[/quote]
I don't understand. Didn't that happen under the watch of the Tories? Or do you not hold them responsible for that incident?

If it comes down to it, I would expect the people (father or mother) whose child it is, to make the sacrifice for their child, yes.

Oh yes the sacrifice chat. Similar to the 'you shouldn't have dc if you can't look after them'. They want you to sacrifice your child's development, your job, your livelihood & simultaneously put on a brave face & grin & bear it. On & if you do get furloughed for childcare then you should pay it back in taxes.

I assume its because they are required to make little sacrifices themselves.

Similar to those screeching for a harder lockdown. I assume they still need food delivered, the boiler & internet to work?

@Fancycrackers

First off, it won’t be short term - if/once they close we’re talking months, not weeks. Just like last time round. Toddlers and preschoolers don’t have months to waste in developmental terms - several months of isolation at home and being largely ignored by stressed out, distracted parents will take its toll. A few unfortunate kids will inevitably die due to neglect. Secondly, most of the working parents I know don’t have several months of leeway either in terms of holding on to their careers - several (all women) have been made redundant already and others are clinging on by their fingernails to careers they’ve spent years building. Childcare being withdrawn would be the last straw, and I’m sick of women and children bearing the brunt of the lockdown fallout.

Nurseries are already shut in Scotland. It is really difficult WFH with a 3 year old and a 6 year old.

It just highlights how things are being handled differently by each country. Ideally I would like them open but just have to muddle through.

@Freddiefox
I’m sorry to hear that so many of your colleagues have left because of their concerns. I don’t know what to say as you are very clearly needed but seemingly not valued by those who need you the most. It’s a bit like being a kettle - you aren’t noticed until you stop working. Good luck and I hope the next few weeks are bearable. I think you are all amazing.

If they close them down without proper funding then frankly they won't reopen. A nursery i work with is already terribly worried because it would appear they have to give up funding for children on-roll who don't want to attend due to the pandemic.

Also to those trying to earn a living with children at home (most of us) that goes from extremely difficult to nearly impossible with nursery aged children at home.

Furlough or paid leave is only an option if there isn't work that needs to be done - otherwise what is the employer supposed to do without their staff? And 10 days is laughable, as is the idea that this is 'short term' - if nurseries shut tomorrow when would you expect them to be safe to open again, and what would have to happen for that? Because there isn't a sensible answer that doesn't lead to the conclusion that they'd be shut for months, again.

No it isn’t. It is available for those who need to be there for childcare. Check the Martin Lewis website. The TUC are recommending this is offered to all parents.

10 days would allow shortening of days over the period of lockdown and then flexi-working could sort out the rest.

There is even flexi-furlough. You should really read up on this.

I don't understand. Didn't that happen under the watch of the Tories? Or do you not hold them responsible for that incident?

It’s not very difficult to understand.

Under labour proposals, more incidents like this will happen.

Not rocket science to follow that.

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@MarshaBradyo
If it comes down to it, I would expect the people (father or mother) whose child it is, to make the sacrifice for their child, yes. This could be shared by the mother or father.

No, I would not expect you to pay fees. I would expect nursery staff to be given furlough so the nurseries could open after the pandemic.[/quote]
I don't understand why if:

a) you don't feel able to do your job under the current circumstances and
b) you think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that people just accept giving up their jobs, whatever the personal repercussions, as a consequence of the pandemic

Then why you don't leave your job? I can see why you prefer your solution where other people lose their jobs and you keep yours on furlough pay without working, but I don't see why you feel it's fairer?

@BungleandGeorge

Nurseries are not the same as schools, the bubbles are much smaller and they generally spend a lot of time outside. The average age of the employees is much lower too. It’s not safe for parents to work whilst looking after young children. They should stay open as long as possible, even if it’s at the expense of other areas

This, on top of people then using granny & grandad for childcare would probably make the spread WORSE not better.

@AgnesNaismith

Furlough or paid leave is only an option if there isn't work that needs to be done - otherwise what is the employer supposed to do without their staff? And 10 days is laughable, as is the idea that this is 'short term' - if nurseries shut tomorrow when would you expect them to be safe to open again, and what would have to happen for that? Because there isn't a sensible answer that doesn't lead to the conclusion that they'd be shut for months, again.

No it isn’t. It is available for those who need to be there for childcare. Check the Martin Lewis website. The TUC are recommending this is offered to all parents.

10 days would allow shortening of days over the period of lockdown and then flexi-working could sort out the rest.

There is even flexi-furlough. You should really read up on this.

It is available if your employer offers it. You could make it a right - though you'd have to get through a lot of resistance from the treasury first - but that isn't the current situation. If it became the situation then a lot of employers would just collapse; furlough is a limited amount of good to you if your employer shut permanently after losing half its workforce because they took furlough as a statutory right.

For society, they should close. For quite a few individuals/families, that will be really incredibly tough.

I just feel rather hopeless this time, the lock down was more stringent last time (March), yet the situation we are in is worse this time.

I think it does seem odd they stayed open in England but were shut in Scotland. Sturgeon or Johnson? I'd bet Sturgeon was right.

This, on top of people then using granny & grandad for childcare would probably make the spread WORSE not better.

Quite. It’s insanity.

@TheKeatingFive

Well he’s lost my vote then. Utterly tone deaf to the realities of working parents’ (for which read women’s) lives, not to mention small children’s developmental needs

Hardly surprising coming from labour, huh?

Again, this too is an absurd position to take. The Tories closed 500 Sure Start centre. You think they're a party that values small children's developmental needs?

Turning this into a party political position makes no sense.. The UK will hit 100k deaths by the end of the month, and has also been one of the hardest hit economies by far. Worst of both worlds. But I don't think it's about Labour vs. Tories. I'm convinced someone like Jeremy Hunt, with his many failings, would have done a more competent job than this lot.

For society, they should close. For quite a few individuals/families, that will be really incredibly tough.

It wont just be tough for famiies though, it will be absolutely ruinous for many nurseries.

It's also niave to think it's going to help lower the spread. As others have said Granny and Grandad will just replace the nursery care so Mum and Dad can keep working.

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat

I’m a childminder, my business won’t survive if I do have to close again. Many nurseries are in the brink. Parents need their childcare to be available from the very day they can go back to work themselves and this work happen if we are forced out of business. It’s a lose lose situation.

I'd actually prefer childminder use to nurseries.

Far less households mixing

I'd actually prefer childminder use to nurseries.

Easier to set up nursery outside.

The Tories closed 500 Sure Start centre. You think they're a party that values small children's developmental needs?

I never said that. Neither party gives a flying fuck about small children and women in the workforce.

If nurseries shut then I, nor my colleagues with younger children will work, which means about 800 students will fall behind on their degrees this year. I guess they'll have to retake it all next year.

Awful as that hot tub incident is, surely if you have a hot tub and small children you would need to ensure that it is safely out of their reach, whether you work from home or not.

That incident could have happened if the mum had been on the phone to a friend or her own mum. It didn’t have to be a 2 hour conference call.

Schools haven't closed in reality.

@Nicknamegoeshere

Schools haven't closed in reality.

No, they absolutely haven't.

If they close, I’ll be using my vulnerable parents. I know which I think is more risky to hospitals.

And no, we can’t work with a 10 month old & 3 year old. We work in shitty customer service taking hundreds of calls a day from customers. Literally cannot do our job. Employer says no furlough because the company are really busy. Can’t afford unpaid leave, we’d default on our bills.

For society, they should close. For quite a few individuals/families, that will be really incredibly tough.

This. I have a three year old. I'm keeping her home. It's tough - I run a food bank, DH has a (non critical) FT role WFH, we're just juggling as best we can while trying to keep DD happy, stimulated etc. Our (incredibly cautious and well-run) nursery has had cases. 4/5 other nearby nurseries have had cases. The demographic data for my area shows under 5s infected. It's really difficult but I can't send her in right now.

What about parents who are in the NHS work in supermarkets, and all the other essential services? Suggest some folk think before they sound off demanding nurseries are closed.