Sir Keir Starmer calling for nursery closure!

[Boogie5678]

Sorry I’m not sure how to link this but it’s on BBC news.

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@SchnitzelVonCrummsTum

But you can’t then complain if you have to supervise your own toddler when the nursery staff refuse to work because they feel unsafe.

Your ‘liking’ of the staff matters not a jot when the female nursery worker aged 48, gets long Covid, can’t work and has no income. I would say fighting for them to have the vaccine makes more sense IF you want them to provide childcare.[/quote]
Oh, on a personal level I am very, very pro the staff getting the vaccine. I'm also not complaining about looking after my own toddler!

My point is this though:

Can you demonstrate to me on available data that immunising nursery staff rather than clinically vulnerable and elderly individuals will have a BIGGER IMPACT on relieving the elevated mortality, morbidity and NHS pressures that mean that the country has had to lock down?

Because reduced mortality, morbidity and concomitant NHS pressures are the outcomes that we need to use to allocate vaccines according to available evidence.

I was a stay at home parent and postgraduate student and managed to do both without using a nursery.

Haha brilliant.

With the number of kids still going to school under the key worker system, I see absolutely no difference to keeping them open.

@GypsyLee but you didnt work full time in a middle of a pandemic whilst homeschooling older children and entertaining a toddler, did you?

So really - you have NO idea.

It's not a case if we don't want to look after them, we have paid to send them to a safe environment whilst we can work.

Trust me, I'd rather be a SAHM right now and this not be a problem but I have to pay my mortgage and have mouths to feed.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones . Do you honestly believe that HCP feel safe at work? Despite PPE, they are 7.7 times more likely to suffer from severe covid than the general population. (BMJ December 2020). By your reasoning, they too should not be in work, as many will and do have severe anxiety due to their current workplace conditions. Perceived and actual risk are not the same as many previous posters have suggested. I'm not saying you shouldn't shut nurseries b4 you accuse me of not caring, if the evidence supports it.

That won't open up a place for another child. They are duty bound to keep that open for your child.

I've skimmed this thread, so sorry if it's already been discussed.

Another aspect of nurseries staying open is that school nursery classes are staying open. We're a KW/SAHP household, so we haven't taken up the KW place for my older DC. We've got emails saying nursery is open as usual, with the expectation that we would send younger DC in. We haven't - we've told them that DC will be home for now. But we've had nothing to confirm that we aren't jeopardising our place (as we would normally be, if we kept DC at home for several weeks). At the very least, there should be a request for families that can easily do it to keep kids away, with confirmation that our place will be secure.

My nursery (inner London) only ever opened to Key workers and vulnerable children. Its a stand alone nursery and those who pay will have their fees adjusted accordingly.

We were offered a place as DC has a SEN placement but with my primary aged two at home its not doable to send the toddler so we've not accepted the place. Sadly they can't offer our place to someone else - which I told them I'd be happy for them to do.

I can't help but wonder if the same people demanding for nurseries and schools to all but those with either single key worker parents or 2 key worker parents are the same ones who will be kicking up a stink in a few weeks because their clinically vulnerable or older family member hasn't had their vaccine yet. Because the vaccine roll out has been delayed to fewer staff being able to do the hours to support the covid vaccination service.

Would be interesting to see in a few weeks.

Mine is a CIN and offered a place at school from tomorrow, she's leaving it for someone she said will need it.

It doesn't work like that. It's her space and it cannot be offered to another person just because she doesn't go.

Most of the staff on the nursery where I work are over 50
I don’t think it would be a good idea to furlough them as the nursery would them have to close as there wouldn’t be enough staff

No, I wasn't given the opportunity, I lost all my work, when lockdown was announced, before it started.
But, yes we've wfh with toddlers and He.ed for many years.
It was H.ed that brought me here, originally.
It's not easy but many could manage it if they put their minds to it.
The schools and nurseries shouldn't have this many kids in, and because the list of key worker keeps getting longer, they all should close.
It has nothing to do with who has children and who doesn't, but dong what's right.
We could all be double income and relying on others to care for our children, but it's pretty selfish if you are endangering other lives, when you decided to have the kids.

@Same4Walls you are absolutely right but @GypsyLee hasn't got a bloody clue!!!

[quote Remmy123]**@Same4Walls* you are absolutely right but @GypsyLee* hasn't got a bloody clue!!![/quote]
It's worrying just how many people think they are so well informed and yet they spout absolute nonsense...

All our staff are over 30. Quite a few over 50. Some with asthma and other conditions that make them more likely to be ill but not CEV.

So are they being given the option of paid or unpaid leave if they are at risk?

@GypsyLee. I am not relying on them - I'm paying thier wages otherwise they will close!!!!! Are you insane?

And you home schooling in the past was obviously a choice that YOU made and not because of the situation we are in now. And I don't believe you home educated whilst working full time.

@rustyhinges

I'm sorry if this comes across rudely.

Some of us are working at home plus homeschooling and now if nurseries close we will be looking after toddlers too. All at the same time. If you are doing your job properly that should take up seven hours a day. Plus six hours homeschooling. Throw in looking after a toddler which is about ten hours non stop and that's if they sleep well and have naps.

That's 23 hours a day. One hour left for sleep?

This is absolutely nothing like being a stay at home parent and doing post graduate study. Absolutely nothing.

@InterfectoremVulpes

All our staff are over 30. Quite a few over 50. Some with asthma and other conditions that make them more likely to be ill but not CEV.

So are they being given the option of paid or unpaid leave if they are at risk?

Nobody dares admit they don’t want to work! But that’s a whole other story. It would be unpaid.

We could all be double income and relying on others to care for our children, but it's pretty selfish if you are endangering other lives, when you decided to have the kids.

I know you know that many people working in services that are saving lives right now have children, too. You’d rather not face that, because you’re quite enjoying this contrarian “well why work in the first place you selfish witches” position, but you must be aware of it at some level.

So what do you suggest all those workers do? Cut hours and services get cut as well. Should we magic up extra staff out of the air?

Haven’t RTFT, agree nurseries should probably close although this will be a disaster for me work wise.

However, Keir is stating the obvious here which isn’t helpful- why isn’t he instead challenging to government to give working parents some fucking help, to look after their kids at home while working.
Come on Keir, tell them how to support us, paid parental leave, or additional annual leave, or flexible/part time working requests that cannot be rejected, or whatever else.
I don’t know, I’m not a policy adviser but you have a few- use them and LEAD on this.

FFS. Parents being thrown to the wolves- nobody is advocating for us. Helping us will help teachers, critical workers, vulnerable children, anyone who has a stake in schools being as empty as possible.

@GypsyLee

No, I wasn't given the opportunity, I lost all my work, when lockdown was announced, before it started. But, yes we've wfh with toddlers and He.ed for many years. It was H.ed that brought me here, originally. It's not easy but many could manage it if they put their minds to it. The schools and nurseries shouldn't have this many kids in, and because the list of key worker keeps getting longer, they all should close. It has nothing to do with who has children and who doesn't, but dong what's right. We could all be double income and relying on others to care for our children, but it's pretty selfish if you are endangering other lives, when you decided to have the kids.

Christ, there's an argument for closer regulation of home education if I ever saw one

God, I hope not. Parents don't pay whacking big fees every month for fun, the reality is we actually NEED childcare in order to work to provide for our families and pay the taxes required to fund the NHS, the schools, the MPs, the furlough.

The reality is it's not possible to work properly and take good care of a very young child. It's bad enough trying to home school while I'm being paid to WORK from home, but a toddler makes doing it all impossible. I did it last Spring for months, so I know.

We haven't even given the current measures a chance to work. Starmer ought to present compelling data before calling for something so disruptive, that only "probably" needs to happen.

Most of the staff on the nursery where I work are over 50
I don’t think it would be a good idea to furlough them as the nursery would them have to close as there wouldn’t be enough staff

I'm afraid nurseries have to take some responsibility here. If their staff are vulnerable or they can't provide a safe environment, the nursery should be voluntarily closing.

Our nursery has moved entirely outside for my DS's age group and the staff all seem to be under 30 (I haven't asked because none of my business). I presume none of the staff are clinically vulnerable or at risk (again none of my business). I would hope the nursery would send them home if that were the case rather than put them at risk by having them come in even if that meant the nursery had to close.

We haven't even given the current measures a chance to work. Starmer ought to present compelling data before calling for something so disruptive, that only "probably" needs to happen.

I know. His ‘probably’. He’s a flimsy noob.

Nobody dares admit they don’t want to work! But that’s a whole other story. It would be unpaid.

Why is that? Surely an employer with vulnerable staff would be understanding of their fears and is prepared to be flexible?