Sir Keir Starmer calling for nursery closure!

[Boogie5678]

Sorry I’m not sure how to link this but it’s on BBC news.

We have had to remove our own child from nursery (not in the UK). We are hiring someone currently out-of-work as a babysitter, cash in hand.

I will make no money after childcare costs are paid for. But I cannot stop working yet again, my career will be in tatters.

If you can possibly afford it, consider trying to find someone like this and forming a tight childcare bubble. I get that this is not even a financial option for many people, though.

Lone parent/ teacher here. If my nursery closed- I just wouldn't be able to cope. They closed to everyone last lockdown.

[quote Remmy123]@Freddiefox wearing a make is down to the nursery manager to decide. Ask them.[/quote]
That’s bullshit, look in the guidance. Action for early years. You will see.

I do think it's completely wrong to not allow nursery workers to wear masks - at DS's nursery it's there own choice whether to wear them inside, and it's compulsory for both us and them at handover, which also takes place outside. My understanding is that almost none of them do wear masks (understandably I don't think they find it very nice to wear them while doing such a physical job all day), but it's explicitly in the policy that they can choose to.

What about key workers outside the home? What am I meant to be with my 7 month old?
Oh no I forgot I'm a woman, doesn't matter if I loose my job.
I have massive sympathy for nursery staff as they have been shitted on over and over but I can’t work if they sh8.
I work in a supermarket and several of the staff have caught Covid (obviously may not be from work) but has only been one case in nursery.
Do you think I feel safe?

A lot of people in public facing jobs didn't sign up for this. OH works at the supermarket and definitely didn't sign up for this. Taking my DC to nursery is some risk to me, because she's mixing with effectively all the households of the staff and parents in the room and it's a pretty big bubble. I didn't sign up for that, but I can't choose to keep her off because I work part time and we need the income to pay the mortgage. Same reason OH and the other supermarket staff can't just quit.
None of us signed up for this. Unless were shielding we're all at risk in one way or another. I can't get an online food shop so I keep having to go to the supermarket and do a shop when it's heaving and nobody is distancing.. I didn't sign up for that!

I'm not trying to oversimplify, I get some professions are more at risk than others. I feel very aggrieved OH is at risk and it's worsened because of the governments incompetence to get it under control.

But none of us signed up for this. It isn't an excuse to trash the development of early years kids by meaning they are either at home with parents trying to 'wfh' (not possible) or mean the parent has to quit their career.

Protecting workers from exposure should only come first if there is a proven risk and the risks outweigh the benefits to them as well as others. I haven't seen any evidence that nursery workers are at great risk from becoming ill from Covid. The workforce is almost totally female and largely young, so among the lowest risk groups for complications. They are however at very great risk of financial isssues if their places of work are closed temporarily or long term.

@Hardbackwriter. I still have moments where I shudder about the memory of having put DS in the next room in front of the TV (which isn't normally how I would parent a 20 month old in the first place) while I had a meeting and midway through looking out the window to see him walking out the house towards the road. He had never shown any interest in opening the front door before that, yet alone capability. I absolutely shed a tear and thought 'there for the grace of god' about the poor woman whose toddler drowned while she was on a conference call.

Yes, that's how I felt at the time. DS has always been a bit of a handful (very easy going, not whiny at all but very, very active and no concept of risk). After a few near misses earlier that week, incarcerating him in his buggy seemed the only option. Accidents just take a minute or two if you're distracted elsewhere. Leaving a toddler unattended for a couple of hours is just unthinkable, yet that's what many are being pressured to do.

Why don't nursery workers then campaign to wear masks then?

You know if nursery's closed you won't get paid. I can't pay mine as I'll have to pay someone else to have my toddler.

Ours has changed so all nursery workers are wearing masks. It’s not ideal for the children but very happy to support the staff to do so. I have zero patience for parents of older children complaining about nurseries being open. It really isn’t the same at all having teenagers at home and unless someone can show me data that nurseries are driving community transmission then the cost/benefit data on closure just isn’t there.

I suspect most parents during last lockdown who had toddlers at home will have had a near-miss. I pity that poor woman whose 18m old died. It will haunt her for the rest of her life and it could so easily have been many other children in many other families. The poster above mentioning her child unlocking the door gives me the chills.

I have young children and I'm opposed to nurseries closing, if there's date to suggest closing in a fortnight then I will support this. There is nothing for young children right now and development is important. I do think that we should prioritize testing at nurseries and vaccinating the staff.
I'll fight tooth and nail for a nursery place this time, as I imagine others will so nurseries will still be busy, what will you all bitch and moan about then?

The drip drip drip of saliva from the zealots' mouths is deafening; their hunger will not be satisfied until there is total and utter misery all round.

Even when things do start to get better, they will be screaming (muffled by their masks) "it's not safe yet!!!!!!!!!"

@MessAllOver @Hardbackwriter yes I had similar near misses, 20 month old climed on chair fell off and hit head whilst I was trying to reply to work email and sign onto conf call. Takes a second for a bad accident. Thankfully we were ok. My work don't get that juggling is impossible at that age. Lots of online stuff made out it was all a big laugh, let's embrace the challenge, kids interrupting the conference call comedy. Some of that but also some pretty risky shit too that you would normally do as a parent. Reflecting now I won't do it again. If they shut I'll quit or ask for leave (would have to be unpaid). And we won't be able to keep paying nursery like we did when they shut before, so they'll be screwed too.

@wanderings absolutely.

@MarshaBradyo

Freddie do you work outside? We do so much , PPE, temp checks, small bubbles, vast space, it’s frustrating other employers don’t do the same.

I know there’s a vast range in nurseries having seen them lately. Can you move to a better one?

I run my nursery, yes we are outside as much as we can be, parents moan that their children are cold, even after I’ve asked or provided them with coats. ( yes even in this weather I have children attend without a coat) They moan that I leave the windows open and their child is cold. ( I leave the heating on as well)

My staff can wear masks if they like, and if parents don’t like it that’s for them to decide what they do. But the staff don’t have to wear mask and I can’t force them all to.
Staff can social distance.

Temp checks are not advised I believe due to the concerns that parents will give their child calpol.

Of the children I have sent home (3) due to temp 2 refused to test their child and took 14 days off instead.
We are unsupported by anyone, and I feel devalued and demoralised.

Staff are scared, and uncomfortable, so are leaving because they money they get isn’t worth the risks. By the way I can’t pay them anymore because the
The parents don’t follow the rules of lockdown and moan when I ask them too.

Wanderings yep

@Remmy123

Why don't nursery workers then campaign to wear masks then?

You know if nursery's closed you won't get paid. I can't pay mine as I'll have to pay someone else to have my toddler.

We are

I wish we could get past ‘selfish’ and ‘stupid’. It helps absolutely no-one.

The drip drip drip of saliva from the zealots' mouths is deafening; their hunger will not be satisfied until there is total and utter misery all round.

This is a really ugly thing to say in the circumstances.

I can well understand the financial problem it would cause you but why wouldn't you start having children back when things reopen? Or would you get a job so not choose to childmind again.

It’s not about choosing not to childmind again but the necessity of having an income. I love my job, I’m very good at it, but if I can’t make money from it then it isn’t sustainable is it? I could keep my registration open fir the future but for nurseries who have to close and let their staff go, it would be much much more difficult to simply restart on the turn of a penny.

In answer to the post wanting to see evidence of the virus affecting nurseries - there is data “Reported coronavirus (COVID-19) cases by registered early years and childcare settings” which shows from 0 cases in June the number of reported cases in mid Dec was over 500 per week. More recent data not yet available but we all know the direction we’re going. Nurseries will need to remain open for key workers and vulnerable families but by taking all those children who could stay at home, they face a higher chance of staff becoming ill - or worse - and then having to close for those who need their sessions the most. We all know it’s not easy if children cannot attend but none of this is easy and there are bigger issues at stake here.

In answer to the post wanting to see evidence of the virus affecting nurseries - there is data “Reported coronavirus (COVID-19) cases by registered early years and childcare settings” which shows from 0 cases in June the number of reported cases in mid Dec was over 500 per week. More recent data not yet available but we all know the direction we’re going. Nurseries will need to remain open for key workers and vulnerable families but by taking all those children who could stay at home, they face a higher chance of staff becoming ill - or worse - and then having to close for those who need their sessions the most. We all know it’s not easy if children cannot attend but none of this is easy and there are bigger issues at stake here.

Maybe I'm being naive to ask how many children go to nursery that could be at home? Surely almost all children that go to nursery are there whilst the parent(s) are working? I agree if there's a SAHP the child should be at home now. But where the parent is wfh they are working, and, in my opinion, can't work whilst watching the child. So closing nursery is stopping those parents working (mostly mums, let's be honest)

Nurseries will need to remain open for key workers and vulnerable families but by taking all those children who could stay at home, they face a higher chance of staff becoming ill - or worse - and then having to close for those who need their sessions the most.

Once again it's niave to think nurseries can be sustainable with just keyworker or vulnerable children. It appears no one higher up has considered what happens when they inevitably decide to close to everyone because it's not financially viable...

None of this is easy and there are bigger issues at stake here.

SoRuff63, completely agree. The refusal of some PPs to prioritise workers' safety is depressing. Service industries are not being as well supported as they should be in this.