Sir Keir Starmer calling for nursery closure!

[Boogie5678]

Sorry I’m not sure how to link this but it’s on BBC news.

@IloveJKRowling it doesn’t cover all our costs but a very good chunk and we are also a charity so have received another grant for community serving charities.

I'm a nursery practitioner and don't want us to close. Our families need us so they can work and provide for the children. The children need stability and continuity as well as the activities, outdoor play etc that parents can't do at home while trying to work.
Also, from a selfish point of view, I can't live on 80% pay and used most of my savings surviving the first lockdown. If we are only open for keyworker children I've volunteered to work.

I'm astonished that every time there are discussions about whether a certain sector should close, some people oppose it because it would have a negative impact on them personally.

There is so much more at stake. The questions we should be asking are: are workers in that sector safe? is keeping it open contributing to the spread of disease?

If the answers are 'no' and 'yes' respectively, then that sector should be closed.

The government needs to be transparent about the risk in each sector. And it needs to provide everyone with a basic income guarantee during the pandemic. It is currently doing neither. We cannot go on with Sunak's patchwork of measures that create winners and losers. So, rather than protesting only against measures that will affect us personally, let's unite to demand that no one is left unable to pay their bills during this crisis. Once a system is in place to protect everyone financially we can focus on what's really important – stopping the spread of the virus – rather than constantly weighing lives against economic factors.

I honestly don't know what they expect parent to do with their children. Trying to work while caring for young children is torture. I'm in Scotland so back to having no nursery.

I can see a difference between having a 3 yo and having a 4 yo. 4yo can at least turn the telly over. Sad but true.
Leaving young children to spend hours in front of a telly is somewhere between neglect and poor parenting but it's what parents are expected to do.

The leaders in England at least have children and understand that children need interaction. They will not leave you in peace to get work completed.

Major issue in Scotland that none of those running the country have any real clue what they are subjecting other too. BJ has had periods of self isolating. NS instead has travelled every day to stand on her soap box and rattle on ....we know this is hard....bullshit you have no clue because your still going to work seeing people not experiencing the isolation at home. Or trying to work with little kids.

As for people who cant work from home - what exactly are they meant to do?
You don't want to risk GPs?
Its tear your hair out stuff.

Yeah, I've got three teens at home, missing school/uni/life in general. We all have to make sacrifices.

Yes, but my toddler’s safety is not a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

If nursery staff suddenly were told to do my job at the same time as caring for nursery children, I wouldn’t leave my kids there because there’s no way they could safely do both at once. But when I need to do both at once, it’s “we all need to make sacrifices” - including the under-2s falling backwards off the furniture unsupervised apparently.

I am managing for now by doing an inadequate job of work, forgetting about most homeschooling and hoping my husband’s employer’s finances keep allowing the flexibility they have so far. But even then, this is absolutely hellish, my children are paying the price, and it is not sustainable long-term.

@HazelWong

I wish they'd make nursery kids wear masks. I'd be happy with that for ours.

No way my 1 year old would wear a mask! You do realise that babies and toddlers attend nurseries not just preschoolers?

I work in a preschool and can’t bear the thought of our little ones wearing a mask. I do think they are low transmitters. I’d like staff to wear masks though. We can only wear PPE for nappy changes and the children aren’t fazed at all

@KateF that's what my nursery said to me - I felt so bad for them and told them how grateful I was and they said they were relieved to be open as they wouldn't survive othrwuse and wouid have to close - not to mention they are v happy to have the kids in.

@MessAllOver I’m in Scotland. I’m not currently paying fees as not allowed a place. It’s a private nursery and open to KW children.

@SandysMam

I am going to say something really controversial now but I don’t think there will be reliable data on how it spreads in nurseries. Nurseries are so poorly supported by the government and at risk of closing that I think some will do anything to stay open. We have had “no” cases in our huge nursery. Yet frequently the very young staff members are off with a “tummy bug” or on “holiday”. I would not be surprised if the managers tell the young girls to go off quietly if they test positive and not alert track and trace in order to stop the nursery closing. It just seems far too suspicious that a huge nursery with very young staff haven’t had one case in an area with very high numbers. I am not blaming the nurseries if this is the case, the staff are so poorly paid and the nurseries themselves so badly supported. It is a case of survival. NB* not saying all settings but I bet this does happen.

Not necessarily. I'm in an area that was the one of the worst affected in the whole country in December. We still had zero covid cases in DC's primary school. Other primary schools did have cases, but usually just one, and the whole year bubble was sent home. The secondary schools had very high covid rates, but most kids go by bus, and only a tiny amount of them were distancing and wearing masks on the buses. Definitely seemed that the secondary schools were the only real problem.

Companies that provide essential services like electric, water and broadband would be short staffed of the nurseries closed. How about they prioritise customers who are still willing to go to work themselves?
If your happy for nurseries to close, you need to understand that companies you rely on will may take longer to get round to you as they have parents unable to work.

@notwavingbutdrowning5

I'm astonished that every time there are discussions about whether a certain sector should close, some people oppose it because it would have a negative impact on them personally.

There is so much more at stake. The questions we should be asking are: are workers in that sector safe? is keeping it open contributing to the spread of disease?

If the answers are 'no' and 'yes' respectively, then that sector should be closed.

The government needs to be transparent about the risk in each sector. And it needs to provide everyone with a basic income guarantee during the pandemic. It is currently doing neither. We cannot go on with Sunak's patchwork of measures that create winners and losers. So, rather than protesting only against measures that will affect us personally, let's unite to demand that no one is left unable to pay their bills during this crisis. Once a system is in place to protect everyone financially we can focus on what's really important – stopping the spread of the virus – rather than constantly weighing lives against economic factors.

I’m never astonished that people who aren’t affected by measures are always the ones most keen on them. Yes, it’s astonishing that people don’t want to sacrifice their jobs ‘for the greater good’. As for a system to protect everyone financially, get fucking real.

@Kokeshi123

Unfortunately I think you're right about this ultimately being bad for women in the workplace, and in general. If anything, I think societal gender disparity has been more apparent during this pandemic than at other times, with women picking up the majority of care for kids at home and homeschooling/housework/working at the same time.

And women are the ones ultimately that will sacrifice their jobs in favor of looking after the kids, perhaps taking on offers of furlough and thus putting themselves at risk of redundancy in the future. It's not a good look is it?!

Yes seemed to be secondary schools that had such high rates in my area

Yeah, I've got three teens at home, missing school/uni/life in general. We all have to make sacrifices.

Do those sacrifices include giving up your job? Having to reluctantly use family for childcare, who are more likely to be older? If work has the decency to let you be flexible, looking after your teens all day and then working until the early hours to get the hours in? Going to hazard a wild guess that's a no. Yes we are all making some sort of sacrifice, some bigger than others, and it's not a competition, but teens isn't the same as attempting to work from home and keep a toddler safe, is it?

He's right, unfortunately, listening to the scientists and looking at the numbers. Nurseries have the same issues as schools. They should just be open for the most vulnerable and keyworkers' children. 'Keyworker' needs to be tightened up in definition and to cover where both parents are keyworkers who cannot work from home and have no other options only - or one parent keyworker in the case of lone parents of course where the other parent is absent. Too many children are being sent to some schools when it is not absolutely essential - schools need to clamp down on this and stand up to the parents concerned, and there needs to be a clearer, tighter message from the government and DFE.

@GoldenOmber

Yeah, I've got three teens at home, missing school/uni/life in general. We all have to make sacrifices.

Yes, but my toddler’s safety is not a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

If nursery staff suddenly were told to do my job at the same time as caring for nursery children, I wouldn’t leave my kids there because there’s no way they could safely do both at once. But when I need to do both at once, it’s “we all need to make sacrifices” - including the under-2s falling backwards off the furniture unsupervised apparently.

I am managing for now by doing an inadequate job of work, forgetting about most homeschooling and hoping my husband’s employer’s finances keep allowing the flexibility they have so far. But even then, this is absolutely hellish, my children are paying the price, and it is not sustainable long-term.

I absolutely agree with you, this situation is not acceptable. Leaving toddlers unattended is neglectful and I cannot believe parents are being expected to do this. I have written to my MP to express my dismay at lack of financial help for working parents of young children home-schooling and I would urge more people to do the same re pre-schoolers. As someone else has said, leaving families with the choice of vastly reduced income (or having to quit their job) or children's needs not being met is inhumane, pandemic or not. This has been going on too long now

@Ori2021 agreed.

I'm sitting here panicking and my husband shrugged. He is in his office all day on calls and I'm juggling many balls.

@OHolyTights and do you have nursery age kids?

He's right, unfortunately, listening to the scientists and looking at the numbers.

Could you link to 'the numbers' you've looked at to show that nurseries are a major source of transmission?

They should just be open for the most vulnerable and keyworkers' children. 'Keyworker' needs to be tightened up in definition and to cover where both parents are keyworkers who cannot work from home and have no other options only - or one parent keyworker in the case of lone parents of course where the other parent is absent.

As idealistic as this sounds as I and several others have said what happens to the key workers when the nurseries inevitably close because it's not financially viable to have only a handful of children in. Surley it's more detrimental to lose key workers than it is to keep nurseries open?

Yet another kick for women who chose to have a career and believed all the bullshit that you can be a mum and a good job.
It's not safe or right for my toddler to be at home whilst I work. My company won't suddenly say "oh don't worry about work just look after your son" the work will still be there and I will be expected to do it. I'm on calls most of the day from 8-6 as it is. So I'll just leave my son in front on the TV all day? The likely scenario is I'll end up having a breakdown and lose my job!
And if nursery shuts to just KW children I'll still be having to pay £1500 a month for nothing otherwise the nursery won't be able to have the staff. Or the nursery will shut fully and then no KW places.
At what point do we all just get on with this? If every sector decided they felt at risk at work the whole country would grind to a halt!

As for a system to protect everyone financially, get fucking real.

Astonished that you think protecting people who are economically vulnerable isn't real, luggage15. Where do you think the billions the Chancellor has spent so far have come from? It is entirely possible to ensure that everyone has a minimum income and no one loses their home.

As for people not wanting to 'sacrifice jobs for the greater good' - this isn't some airy-fairy utopia we're talking about; it's saving lives. That could be the lives of your loved ones.

No one said living through a pandemic would be easy. Do you really expect your life to carry on as before while people around you are dying?

My nursery has told me that they are not sure if they will be able to remain open for key workers only as it is financially unviable. I’m only aware of 2 other children in my son’s room whose parents are key workers- we don’t all use the nursery everyday (I’m a shift worker). I am then in a position of taking unpaid leave (the last thing the NHS needs right now) or finding an alternative nursery, one with spaces is probably hard to come by. I also cannot afford to be paying my closed nursery and a new one.
I feel for nursery workers- I want them to be safe as possible, I want them to be prioritised for the vaccine. It isn’t simple. I don’t think closing them is as easy as switching to key-worker only provision like in schools as the majority are private businesses.

Just an FYI for parents having to wfh with young children...

What worked really well last time was strapping my 2 yo into the buggy with a chest strap across so he couldn't wriggle out and putting him in front of the TV with Peppa Pig on repeat.

I left him with a beaker of water but no food to avoid a choking hazard. He did have nappy rash by the time I returned and was quite upset, but hey ho, we've all got to make sacrifices, even toddlers who don't understand why nobody's coming and why they're being neglected.

We're not doing it this time - we've decided to take the financial hit if nurseries shut.

@Hardbackwriter

He's right, unfortunately, listening to the scientists and looking at the numbers.

Could you link to 'the numbers' you've looked at to show that nurseries are a major source of transmission?

I’d like to see this too. A poster put in in another thread and it was far lower.