Sir Keir Starmer calling for nursery closure!

[Boogie5678]

Sorry I’m not sure how to link this but it’s on BBC news.

Some do yes but what is majority in numbers? I don't know but I do know in my family the women are the ones who can't work from home, a doctor and a teacher in school 5 days a week with keyworker/vulnerable children and online lessons. I just don't see the value in the constant "they are picking on women" as it isn't just women who are dealing with this.

Like many many things of course they should be shut but you have to balance the impact of the closure with the benefits of it remaining open.

There shouldn't be anyone sending them just for 16 free hours if it's possible to look after themselves

If they close nurseries they need to provide financial compensation for the money they will lose (childminders too). It's as simple as that. The costs will be a drop in the ocean compared to the economic damage if there are no childcare facilities available once lockdown is over.

Maybe getting the profits serco have made back (off the 22billion we've given them) might do it. I can't believe we're not seeing more pressure from cross party coalitions to consider something like this. Serco absolutely didn't meet their deliverables, many times over, they shouldn't have been paid regardless. No other company is treated like this.

It is unsafe working with 1-2 year olds. Last time round we had a 3 and 1 year old and it was just unsafe. I can’t and won’t do it again. People seem to forget that nurseries were one of the first things to open in June. Since then we used 3 different childcare settings and none of them have had any cases. There are plenty of other things that could be shut before nurseries. If nurseries shut, I’d try and find a nanny so we’d still be in contact with someone else. One of the nurseries we used over the summer was an outdoor forest school. There is no real need for settings like that to close.

I hope the fact that Boris has a young child might have some influence.

If nurseries close either me or DP will have to stop working. He's self employed so 'easier' for him but we lose half our income. There's no way we could pay anything towards the nursery fees to make sure our place is kept. We waited nearly a year for the place initially.

@IloveJKRowling there is already a scheme for early years providers to claim a grant. It is calculated per places of closure.
For example our nursery of 60 places closed for 10 days - there will be a set amount of the 60 places which I think is £5500

For those calling for nurseries to close (and I'm on the fence on this), how do you want this to work?

• Presumably parents will be refunded their nursery fees to fund unpaid leave/alternative childcare?
• Should nurseries have to stay open to KW/vulnerable children? What if this isn't financially viable for them and they choose to close entirely?
• How should nurseries meet their costs? Staff can be placed on furlough, but what about the staff and other costs apart from wages?

There are no easy answers, but I think these questions at least need to be thought about before a decision is made on closures.

I'd be interested to hear from parents in Scotland - are your closed nurseries refunding fees? Are they still open for KW children or have some decided to shut entirely?

@GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat I’m a childminder too. At the start of January I had just got back to a reasonable income after losing lots of kids last time. Now I’m right back down to earning 50% again. It’s better than nothing but it’s frustrating. I’ll be very upset if we have to close again.

Well I am with him. (saying as a nursery worker where most fee paying children are still in)

They also clearly haven't thought through the implications for the NHS if in every family with two incomes the lower income is sacrificed to look after children.

For every couple I know with one nurse (all of them are female) - the nurse ALWAYS has the lower salary.

@PicsInRed

I would hasten to remind people how many payroll processors are women with children. Yes, some payroll can be done from home, but slowed processes will result in late wages and salaries. How many people live paycheck to paycheck?

This will be replicated across the banking and payments industry where many clerks are women, all large batches are moved through an approvals chain, and funds release from investments goes through a live person. If there are less people working, or less hours worked, or processes are slowed due to wfh, people will be waiting for money they need for food and bills. This was already happening at lockdown #1, which is why people were brought back to the office to ensure continuous functionality at expected levels.

Work from home is possible in many roles, but output is severely reduced unless there is a full office level work station set up. In reality, it's mostly a person sitting on the sofa with a laptop and mobile phone.

I run payroll from home, I've found it great, no interruptions and I can do it when I feel like it. Staff are being very good at submitting their hours as they don't want to risk payroll being late. I also benefit from not having to travel to work. I hope I can continue to do it when lockdown is over.

I'm also caring for a GC during lockdown to help parents and yes it is safe, he moved in just before lockdown after 2 weeks of parents keeping him safely at home over Christmas so we can live comfortably as one household although getting him up and doing his schoolwork can be challenging but I think he would be more difficult with his parents.

@MarshaBradyo

I'd actually prefer childminder use to nurseries.

Easier to set up nursery outside.

Doesn't decrease mixing though. Drop offs, pick ups, walking through centre, number of households mixing.

I work in a setting where most children have a SAHM because they are well off. They are nearly all in. It’s disgusting.

kirinm I dont have the option of furlough this time as of yet, all of our children are still attending and I'm needed in numbers. I didnt receive a letter about shielding so I havent been allowed to by my employers.

there is already a scheme for early years providers to claim a grant. It is calculated per places of closure. For example our nursery of 60 places closed for 10 days - there will be a set amount of the 60 places which I think is £5500

Interesting thanks @SendHelp30

For those of you who are childminders / nurseries - is this easy to access and does it cover your costs?

@farwin

The harder we lockdown, the shorter the time we need to lockdown for - I say this as someone who wants schools and nurseries to open to all children again as soon as safely possible.

It just doesn’t work like that as at some point they’ll all have to open again and the same thing will happen.

Also who is kier Starmer trying to protect here? Richer families are more likely to have a nanny and be unaffected. It’ll be middle income families that will struggle if nurseries are closed.

Closing schools is not about making teachers safe. Of course, I want teachers to be safe. I want them to have protective measures in place for their own sake. However, closing schools is about slowing community spread. Similarly, we cannot frame closing nurseries in terms of 'making nursery staff safe'. That simply isn't the point of lockdown, even though it will be individual staff members' motivation and I do not blame them at all.

Only when nurseries can be shown to be driving significant community spread AND other tighter measures have been applied to slow community spread in other areas should we consider closing them. Individual anecdotes aside, there simply isn't the evidence at the moment that they are driving significant community spread based on ONS data.

@MarshaBradyo

I'd actually prefer childminder use to nurseries.

Easier to set up nursery outside.

Childminders have gardens, too, you know 🙄

A quick Google tells me that 3.86% of the population are under 5 in 2019. I'm guessing that many won't be attending nursery (SAHM or Dad, mat leave etc). So, even if 3% do, which I suspect is too high a figure but don't have the actual numbers (couldn't see this), then I suspect closing them would have little impact on overall transmission. Better looking at the other 97% of the population.

@Tiquismiquis you may be correct about the personal situation of Mr Johnson, and you are assuming he has only one young child.

Thank goodness ppl are finally speaking up for us nursery staff. None of us feel safe .If worst case scenario we shut for good I'll go on benefits till I can get something else my health and safety are more important than working for NMW.

I'm currently keeping ds 2.5 off, we were going to see what the numbers are doing in a weeks time but I would absolutely support closure (and we are both keyworkers).

Our nursery emailed to say they've had their first positive case this week.

I don't have nursery age children, mine are primary so currently with grandparents during my working week. I think lockdown needs to be stricter for a shorter period but I think nurseries should be the absolute last resort for closure. I can see many of them going out of business (yet more damage to the economy and MH impact) but I can see an argument for reducing attendance at nursery where the place is not essential (ie non key worker parents, a SAHP) for a short period with the government picking up any loss of funding.

I'd be interested to hear from parents in Scotland - are your closed nurseries refunding fees? Are they still open for KW children or have some decided to shut entirely?

Fees seems to depend on the nursery.

Most are still open for KW children and they have more wiggle room than schools - schools are mostly saying ‘if 2 parents then both parents need to be key workers and both working out of the home’, while some nurseries are taking kids of two KW parents even if they’re working from home. Still all the ones I know are requiring both parents to have keyworker status though and it seems our list of KW criteria is much stricter than England’s.

If they loosen criteria to allow children of one KW parent then my toddler will be going back. I am trying my absolute hardest, but I cannot do my job while caring for a toddler adequately while also homeschooling older DC. My DH’s workplace is being as flexible as they can but they can’t have him working at 10% of his hours so I can do 100% of mine.