Chris Whitty in The Times today - don't meet friends and family unnecessarily

[MrsMiaWallis]

"Emergency patients will be turned away from hospitals, causing “avoidable deaths”, unless the public starts obeying the lockdown, England’s chief medical officer warns today.
In a stark intervention designed to shock, Professor Chris Whitty warns that everyone who meets friends and family unnecessarily is a “link in a chain” that threatens the lives of vulnerable people"

Worth noting. I had to pick up a prescription from my local town and was surprised to see so many people - mainly middle aged women, some of whom I know and had always seemed like rational intelligent people - walking around town and chatting on the pavements, unmasked, no social distancing.

Apologies I don't know how to do share tokens.

Indeed. Only need to look at people vaping to see how far breath travels.

That's a really great point.

@KeysDontBelongInTheFridge

I thought you a solo person was allowed to meet one other person outside for a walk? I’m so confused by everything now.

You're allowed to. Doesn't mean you should, is the argument.

And the tier system was perfectly clear tbh. Usually people know what county they live in and if they can read they could follow the rules if they wanted to. People just wanted to game it.

@MaxNormal

JinglingHellsBells so please explain what happens if everyone stays home and the infection levels drop.

What happens next?

You really need to ask?

Are you that poorly informed?

Vaccine.

There's this thing which you jab in people's arms , it's a vaccine.

If enough people have it, especially the old and medically at risk, deaths will drop. No one who has had the vaccine needs hospital.

Therefore, cancer ops and diagnosis can go ahead and other operations will happen.

Hospitals will not be sending patients to Yorkshire as their own beds are full.

Drs and nurses will not be burned out.

And...guess what? if enough people are vaccinated the level of infection will be so low that we can get back to normal. Yes, it will be around, like flu, but in a far reduced level, and the people who would normally die or get long Covid will be okay.

Clear now?

maturin I have a lot of sympathy for your position and have felt this enraged/frustrated myself a lot recently.

@Nellodee

I think one of the big issues in this wave is that businesses are putting their bottom lines ahead of the public greater good. They know that people will be more productive in the office rather than working from home with kids present.

The harsh reality is that by doing this, cases are going to continue to rise and those same companies will reweigh how productive their company is with workers at home with kids versus how productive it is with half their workers off with Covid. At some point, they are going to decide that home working is more productive, not less.

Their bottom lines are people’s jobs and essential tax revenue to pay for the sainted NHS amongst other things.

"I also fail to see why talking to someone at a distance outside is any risk whatsoever to anyone"

Oh ok, well if you fail to see why then it mustn't be risky. Yeah, you're right brains. Crack on

@AaronPurr

For the next few weeks I'm going to stay at home as much as possible to protect myself, and also the many NHS staff who are struggling.

But you're only able to do that because others are going out to work. Many don't have that luxury, even if they wanted to hide away.

Indeed - I think many people realise how many other people go out to work just to keep the country running. Some people think that stuff like clean water, gas and electricity, and broadband just mss as magically appear

@IrenetheQuaint

I am always baffled by the fact that so many posters get worked by individuals who meet one other person for a walk (which is legal, v good for MH and much lower risk than meeting the same person inside), but not at all worked up by the employers who make their staff come into the office even though the work can be done from home (which is illegal and significantly increases risk - even if the employees stay 2m apart, I'm not sure that is enough to avoid transmission if you're working in the same office together all day).

It's like people love judging individuals but have a massive blind spot when it comes to employers. So weird.

Because people need income and it’s obvious that many people may not be comfortable shopping their employers for fear of losing jobs. But each individual CAN control what s/he does of their own volition in terms of personal actions. It seems quite simple to me. Reduce risks wherever possible. Viral load and numbers of interactions play a huge part in the spread.

How many times??
The numbers we are seeing NOW are due to mixing and events that happened AT LEAST 2 weeks ago.
We weren’t in lockdown 2 weeks ago. It was Christmas two weeks ago when people were allowed to mix.
No amount of locking anything further down is going to stop the case numbers rising RIGHT NOW. We could all live in hazmat suits from this very second and still case numbers will continue to rise for at least another week or two as the lockdown only came in to force 5 days ago!!

@JinglingHellsBells
"
There's this thing which you jab in people's arms , it's a vaccine.

If enough people have it, especially the old and medically at risk, deaths will drop. No one who has had the vaccine needs hospital."

This is the issue - will enough people have it?

The police should be in eery town with a. road block asking people where they are going and if it is not essential, turn them back. This would stop people going out.

Aside from the fact we don’t remotely have enough police for this, you can’t do it without changes to the law. It is legal to leave your house to go for a takeaway coffee for example (because an acceptable reason to leave home is to shop or obtain services from a business that is allowed to remain open). So you cannot expect the police to say “you’re going for a coffee, that’s not essential, go home immediately”. Obviously it’s not essential, it is legal though.
You can’t just say the police should start sending people home for things they are legally allowed to do.

@KeysDontBelongInTheFridge

^I thought you a solo person was allowed to meet one other person outside for a walk? I’m so confused by everything now*.

A walk is just that. It's not a meeting in town to buy a coffee and wander the streets and stand closer than 2 mtrs and chat.

And although I could meet one person I am choosing not to because I don't know who else they are walking with, who may be carrying the virus and have no symptoms, and then my walking friend may get it and have no symptoms and voila! I'd get it.

@Wherediditgo

How many times?? The numbers we are seeing NOW are due to mixing and events that happened AT LEAST 2 weeks ago. We weren’t in lockdown 2 weeks ago. It was Christmas two weeks ago when people were allowed to mix. No amount of locking anything further down is going to stop the case numbers rising RIGHT NOW. We could all live in hazmat suits from this very second and still case numbers will continue to rise for at least another week or two as the lockdown only came in to force 5 days ago!!

Yes this too

@Atalune

Perhaps you should be asking why people in Japan wear masks all the time when they are out and don’t need lockdown to follow the rules . Read the article in the economist.

If you are close enough to hear someone one and talking the virus could be in the air .

And as for Christmas if people had listened they said be extremely careful and really think about who you meet .

And yet today there is an article where a lady asked her family NOT to visit but they ignored her . Now she is in hospital with the virus .

Plus they said schools were safe for the PUPILS as they are normally not ill with the virus , but even Boris said the problem is that it then took it back to households . But he had to consider education and mental health of young people

Is it just that people hear what they want to hear ?

[quote lockeddownandcrazy]@JinglingHellsBells
"
There's this thing which you jab in people's arms , it's a vaccine.

If enough people have it, especially the old and medically at risk, deaths will drop. No one who has had the vaccine needs hospital."

This is the issue - will enough people have it?[/quote]
Yes.

People have to go to work to pay the bills Irene. Noone has to meet a friend in town and chat on the pavement with no attempt at social distancing.

Do people really not get that there may be a limit to what we can actually, effectively do to stop a virus without having worse outcomes? It's a virus not an angry God you can appease by being more of a good girl. It's perfectly possible that compliance with the rules is high (90% Sage said? Certainly as high as you can expect in reality) and it's still not working especially with this new strain. Look at the language people use "my friend didn't deserve to get this" yeah newsflash no one does, the virus isn't picking out the bad people first, it's not a punishment! Of course someone can get it on their one trip to Waitrose just as someone can meet up with whoever they like and manage to avoid it. In other breaking news, life isn't fair.

So frustrating.

1.The government NEEDS to shut down AND IMPOSE furlough on MOST businesses except those which are GENUINELY essential. (I have a friend being forced to work for a well known home furnishing chain who is REQUIRED to continue visiting customers homes to fit curtains . On what planet is a new set of curtains ESSENTIAL? It's this kind of greed over responsibility, that needs to be stopped. Both by the greedy employer and the brain dead customers who are offered the choice ALWAYS put having their curtains fitted above their chances of catching this virus. It's unfathomable . Especially as the customer base is 65-85... she is expected to make up to 5 visits a day. In and out of peoples homes where she stays for 1-2yrs a time.

2.People who are placing kids in school because 'they're entitled to' but don't actually NEED to, need to give their heads a fucking wobble and learn a bit of social responsibility. No you're stress of having kids at home does not trump someone else's right to life.

3.Finally people need to STOP being such childish idiots . Just because there isn't a law doesn't mean you should do something which is obviously going to transmit the virus. !
Surely with over 1k people a day dying , people can make that connection without a law and stop .

[quote Ori2021]@MrsMiaWallis

So last Sunday we were all told by Boris Johnson to send our kids to school. Monday the Govt. closed all the schools. We’ve been in and out of this ridiculous & unintelligible tier system for months. The Govt. did a U-turn over Christmas arrangements at the last minute. Whilst people do understand the gravity of the situation the reality is we’re all sick of confusing half-measures & changes to rules 24hrs beforehand.

We should have had decisive action right from the start, a proper sharp lockdown & ban on international travel. We’re an island for goodness’ sake, we could have, & should have got on top of this so much more effectively. People have lost confidence in the Govt’s ability to manage things & are getting on with their lives by making their own personal risk assessments.[/quote]
Completely agree.

@MrsMiaWallis

People have to go to work to pay the bills Irene. Noone has to meet a friend in town and chat on the pavement with no attempt at social distancing.

Yes but I'm talking about people who could easily do their jobs from home, as per the rules, but whose employers make them come into the office.

*For the next few weeks I'm going to stay at home as much as possible to protect myself, and also the many NHS staff who are struggling.

But you're only able to do that because others are going out to work. Many don't have that luxury, even if they wanted to hide away.*

Clearly some people have to leave home to work but if everyone who can stay at home does stay at home and doesn’t risk catching or spreading the infection that is a good thing.

Is it just that people hear what they want to hear ?
Yes.

In Japan as well they never sit opposite each other and they know what to do to avoid the virus .

They are not virus free but very low figures .

@Unsure33

In Japan as well they never sit opposite each other and they know what to do to avoid the virus .

They are not virus free but very low figures .

I think there's been a very large outbreak in Tokyo tbf