Chris Whitty in The Times today - don't meet friends and family unnecessarily

[MrsMiaWallis]

"Emergency patients will be turned away from hospitals, causing “avoidable deaths”, unless the public starts obeying the lockdown, England’s chief medical officer warns today.
In a stark intervention designed to shock, Professor Chris Whitty warns that everyone who meets friends and family unnecessarily is a “link in a chain” that threatens the lives of vulnerable people"

Worth noting. I had to pick up a prescription from my local town and was surprised to see so many people - mainly middle aged women, some of whom I know and had always seemed like rational intelligent people - walking around town and chatting on the pavements, unmasked, no social distancing.

Apologies I don't know how to do share tokens.

All the people I know who have had it got it working.
This whole blame culture that has been whipped up is grim.

@MrsMiaWallis - to be fair, there is no proof that walking alongside someone, at a 2m distance, outside, is a particularly risky event. It’s far more to do with asking people not to do anything that involves getting anywhere near other human beings unless it is necessary - although far more businesses and organisations could be closed on that basis, as they are only worth opening if people are being encouraged to do “unnecessary” things. And if going to church is necessary for the religious, it’s hard to believe it is not necessary for the non-religious to meet up with a friend for a walk outside.

There is also gross ignorance as shown here about risk of infection outside

But then there are scientists who say the risk of transmission outside is extremely low.

@MrsMiaWallis

A good friend of mine caught it. No kids, lives alone. She'd been having shopping delivered but had gone to the supermarket a few times in the fortnight before. She absolutely MUST havr caught in in the shops despite masks.

Of course you can catch it in shops.

People touch plastic packaging and put it back then the next person picks it up, maybe uses that hand for their glasses, or to tweak their mask, or reach for their car keys or credit card ....without using hand gel in between all those actions.

OR there are people wearing mask that are under their noses.

I caught a cold recently and assume it was just a cold and had been nowhere, and neither has DH, except for 10 mins in the supermarket, obeying all the rules and sanitising everything.

Is it melodrama that 80K people have died and 1K a day recently?
How many people is it who die every year under normal circumstances, 670K or something? And does life have a 100% mortality rate, or is it 99%?

What is the point of keeping us all alive if our reward for staying alive is this extremely miserable existence? And as for "it's not for much longer, because of the vaccine..." I'll believe that when it happens, not before. I haven't forgotten "we can turn this virus around in twelve weeks".

@badpuma

The behaviour you describe is perfectly legal and was in the first lockdown as well. The differences now are nurseries being open, a huge additional number of employers refusing to allow WFH and the meet one person for exercise rule. All of these can be managed by the government.

For starters, if they actually mean that they want to reduce transmission, the work from home if you can guidance needs to be significantly beefed up, and industry sectors such as construction told to close. Schools then need to have a much tighter range of children in.

Meeting one friend for a walk outdoors makes fuck all difference while people are still mixing en masse indoors at work, school, nursery and on public transport.

This!

It's all lip service. Nobody will take any notice of what he says. Without enforcement people will carry on doing as they please.

Big differences between March 2020 lockdown and this one:
Restaurants and cafes open for takeaways - including for a cup of coffee
Allowed to exercise with one person not from household
More bubbles allowed - such as for families with a child under 1
Nurseries and pre-schools are open
Childminders open for all children
Shops in England - more allowed to be open
Can get a car MOT’d
Playgrounds are open
NT are open

And lots more I can not think of ....

When I drive to work ( I teach in a school so have to go) roads are nowhere near as quiet as lockdown 1!!

@MadameBlobby

There is also gross ignorance as shown here about risk of infection outside

But then there are scientists who say the risk of transmission outside is extremely low.

Extremely low is not non-existent.

And the scientists argue the toss all the time.

If you are standing close to someone and they are infected, you will breath in the virus whether you are inside or out.

You don't need to be a genius to work that one out.

The quicker we do this, the sooner this lockdown can be relaxed

Do people still buy this shit?

@MoltenLasagne

How many people are having to go into work because the government refuse to clarify the steps they expect employers to take to enable home working?

How many people are having to send children into school because they only have a right to request furlough for childcare reasons, but not to actually get it?

The vast, vast majority of people are complying with the law but the fact is the government don't want to finance the extra costs that would be required to get enough workers, parents and children staying at home. And I say that as someone with no kids who has been wfh since March.

I agree. You also need to do things like extend deadlines for submitting court claims, extend deadlines for submitting tax returns etc etc Lots of people very happy to say lawyers and accountants etc aren't keyworkers but there is no leeway for missing these sorts of deadlines do the work still has to be done.

It's easy to target people for "selfish" actions such as wanting to have some sort of human contact by going for a walk but much harder to do the things that would actually reduce the need for people to mix in work and work associated settings.

@wanderings

Is it melodrama that 80K people have died and 1K a day recently? How many people is it who die every year under normal circumstances, 670K or something? And does life have a 100% mortality rate, or is it 99%?

What is the point of keeping us all alive if our reward for staying alive is this extremely miserable existence? And as for "it's not for much longer, because of the vaccine..." I'll believe that when it happens, not before. I haven't forgotten "we can turn this virus around in twelve weeks".

Oh do jog on.

I expect you are an anti-vaxer as well.

@Balhammom

I do not accept that the current restrictions are taking an unacceptable toll on normal people.

The situation is taking an unacceptable toll on medical staff. It is taking an unacceptable toll on those who are fighting for their lives and dying.

It is not taking anything like an unacceptable toll on those too stupid or selfish to realise they need to follow some proportionate and sensible rules.

You don’t get to say the roll the restrictions are taking on others. You have no idea how some people may be affected.

Meeting one friend for a walk outdoors makes fuck all difference while people are still mixing en masse indoors at work, school, nursery and on public transport

I heard this morning son the TV that it is mostly young men not obeying the rules. The police should be in eery town with a. road block asking people where they are going and if it is not essential, turn them back. This would stop people going out.

Leave us middle aged women alone. We are the ones doing the grocery shopping and running errands to keep our families running smoothly and we are not even allowed to go for a bloody walk and say a quick hello to friends we haven't seen for months on their daily errand runnings.

*toll

I just feel that too many people don't want to listen anymore. They have managed to avoid being ill while meeting friends and family so far so are carrying on.

It's not just that. It's that others have got away with meeting, 'eye testing', walking with relatives in royal parks etc.

Other than medical appointments my dad has not seen anyone since March.

Other than my carer I had not been in contact with anyone apart from to have my nails done (when it was allowed) and one socially distanced trip to the pub until October

In October I made a support bubble with a friend, when she has visited she has brought her own soap and towel, sat at the other side of the room and brought her own drinks.

I'd really like to go see my dad, or have him here, we have both been 'sheltering' for 9 months and I don't think we would be a risk to others but it's 100+ miles away.

We will both continue, I trust Chris Whitty, he has been dealing with and lecturing on epidemics / pandemics for years.

But I am thinking, "why the hell am I doing this when Boris' friends are not?"

My interpretation is that Chris Whitty doesn’t feel the government is doing enough and so he feels a moral obligation to do what he can to encourage people to not only follow the lockdown but to go above and beyond.

@TheKeatingFive

The quicker we do this, the sooner this lockdown can be relaxed

Do people still buy this shit?

You see, another one who isn't happy to comply.

Is it any wonder we have the most deaths in Europe now?

Use your brain, love.

The government needs to pay people their full wages to self isolate. People who can’t afford to miss work for 10 days are a much bigger transmission risk than people meeting one person for a walk round the local park.

Yes, if you are standing close to someone. Not several metres apart.

Use your brain, love.

I am thanks. Try applying your own.

I've reached the point where frankly I don't much care if hundreds of thousands die - yes including my own loved ones and me. We are stupid, selfish, aggressive animals who have abused the earth we live on, and it would be a good thing for the planet and our own sense of superiority if we as a species were decimated. And the sheer fucking ignorance of people is jaw dropping. Let's have done with it. Let covid run riot. I just don't care anymore about "my fellow man". Fuck 'em. Too stupid to manage a pandemic. Too stupid to understand democracy. Too stupid to follow rules made for their own benefit. I'm having a bad day but honest to god, human beings are just so fucking disappointing

And nothing is “no risk” other than staying locked in ones house forever with quarantined food parcels being air dropped in the garden.

Chris Whitty - number one on my (non politician) shit list, beating Vallance to number 2. Closely followed by Neil Ferguson. And every member of SAGE.

@SnowFields

My interpretation is that Chris Whitty doesn’t feel the government is doing enough and so he feels a moral obligation to do what he can to encourage people to not only follow the lockdown but to go above and beyond.

Yes. Particularly reading that Boris was absolutely against this most recent lockdown and had to be persuaded to shut schools by Gove.