Chris Whitty in The Times today - don't meet friends and family unnecessarily

[MrsMiaWallis]

"Emergency patients will be turned away from hospitals, causing “avoidable deaths”, unless the public starts obeying the lockdown, England’s chief medical officer warns today.
In a stark intervention designed to shock, Professor Chris Whitty warns that everyone who meets friends and family unnecessarily is a “link in a chain” that threatens the lives of vulnerable people"

Worth noting. I had to pick up a prescription from my local town and was surprised to see so many people - mainly middle aged women, some of whom I know and had always seemed like rational intelligent people - walking around town and chatting on the pavements, unmasked, no social distancing.

Apologies I don't know how to do share tokens.

I think that the govt messaging is definitely to blame for peoples blasé attitude towards lockdown, but the reality is that this new variant is more transmissible. The more people who get the virus, the higher the chances of some of them needing a hospital bed and also the higher the chances of more people having long term serious health problems.

The impact of this virus on people with long covid, the people who ended up in hospital either in HDU or ICU, the families and friends of the people who died from Covid, the people whose cancer or other treatment has been delayed....is far reaching and long term.

It is now looking very likely that we will be seeing scenes like we saw in Italy and Spain last spring. The NHS which has been chronically underfunded for over ten years will collapse in some areas. This will lead to deaths. It's not being dramatic, it's reality.

I don't want people to die when we can potentially avoid it.
I don't want to see high numbers of people having to adjust their lives to living with a serious long term condition.
I certainly don't want to be locked down - but at the moment we need to be, we need to restrict social interaction and we need to stop the spread of this virus. While I sympathise with peoples mental health issues, the bottom line is, people are dying who shouldn't be. That must be the important thing right now.

@Emufakes

We need stricter measures ASAP for about a month to six weeks. Nurseries and childminders shut, garden centres and the like shut, takeaway places open for delivery only (i.e. no takeaway coffees), masks everywhere outside the home with on the spot fines for non compliance, KW children only allowed at school if both parents are KW AND both are working outside the house, employers told to shut offices with fines if they don't as there are way too many who still expect their employees to come in if they are "covid secure" (no such thing). Proper support for isolation including hotels for those who need to isolate from CV household members and enforced hotel quarantine when returning from abroad.

I work in mental health and completely understand the impact (believe me) but surely doing the above for a shorter amount of time is better than being in this constant stop start with no end in sight.

Remove the meeting of one other and tighten bubbles as well. Go back to single person support bubbles only and childcare bubbles only where both parents are working out of the home.

I don't believe the majority of people will have "mental health issues" if they can't meet a friend for a coffee.

Feeling a bit sad and miserable about the situation isn't a "mental health issue".

@Emufakes

We need stricter measures ASAP for about a month to six weeks. Nurseries and childminders shut, garden centres and the like shut, takeaway places open for delivery only (i.e. no takeaway coffees), masks everywhere outside the home with on the spot fines for non compliance, KW children only allowed at school if both parents are KW AND both are working outside the house, employers told to shut offices with fines if they don't as there are way too many who still expect their employees to come in if they are "covid secure" (no such thing). Proper support for isolation including hotels for those who need to isolate from CV household members and enforced hotel quarantine when returning from abroad.

I work in mental health and completely understand the impact (believe me) but surely doing the above for a shorter amount of time is better than being in this constant stop start with no end in sight.

as others have pointed out, closing nurseries and childminders will force many of those businesses to close - and the parents that rely on them will lose their jobs. Many take away outlets are not geared up for delivery only and nor is cost-effective for them to operate that way. If they close now, many will close for good. I could go on.

The cot for your suggestions will add many many £billions to an already black hole of public debt that we are all going to have to pay back somehow.

@Valenciaoranges

Wearing masks outdoors may help

It's a not from me

@SecretSpAD you quite clearly don’t sympathise with peoples mental health issues if you are calling for stricter lockdowns and only focusing on covid. What about people who die unnecessarily from their mental health issues because they simply can’t cope anymore? Do those people not matter? Are they just simply collateral damage in our one dimensional fight against covid? A previous poster has already said she is suffering from PND and walking with a friend is really helping her do you want that “luxury” taken away? The lack of balance in some of these posts is awful.

I don't want people to die when we can potentially avoid it.
I don't want to see high numbers of people having to adjust their lives to living with a serious long term condition.
I certainly don't want to be locked down - but at the moment we need to be, we need to restrict social interaction and we need to stop the spread of this virus.

I agree but I also feel there is nothing more I can do to stop it.

I love my mask and wear it outdoors in areas which might be busy. It keeps my face warm and saves on lipstick.

@MrsMiaWallis

I don't believe the majority of people will have "mental health issues" if they can't meet a friend for a coffee.

Feeling a bit sad and miserable about the situation isn't a "mental health issue".

as a single example, no

but it's 'not meeting a friend for coffee' on top of having had virtually no social interaction for a year, having lost your job/been furloughed, trying to home-school your kids, not being able to visit your elderly parent who is unwell etc etc etc

but it's 'not meeting a friend for coffee' on top of having had virtually no social interaction for a year, having lost your job/been furloughed, trying to home-school your kids, not being able to visit your elderly parent who is unwell etc etc etc

Yes like everyone.

as others have pointed out, closing nurseries and childminders will force many of those businesses to close - and the parents that rely on them will lose their jobs. Many take away outlets are not geared up for delivery only and nor is cost-effective for them to operate that way. If they close now, many will close for good. I could go on.

The cot for your suggestions will add many many £billions to an already black hole of public debt that we are all going to have to pay back somehow.

It is immaterial at this point. The govt needs to extend financial support and yes, we will all be paying for it years into the future.

There is no other option at this point. The measures as they are will not work.

Remove the meeting of one other and tighten bubbles as well. Go back to single person support bubbles only and childcare bubbles only where both parents are working out of the home.

That I don't agree with, but I am bubbled with my sister who is sole carer for her (adult) severely disabled DD.

@MrsMiaWallis

but it's 'not meeting a friend for coffee' on top of having had virtually no social interaction for a year, having lost your job/been furloughed, trying to home-school your kids, not being able to visit your elderly parent who is unwell etc etc etc

Yes like everyone.

indeed - everyone is suffering in one way or another, but I can understand why for some people there can be something fairly small which becomes the straw that broke the camel,s back

@MrsMiaWallis your callous narrow minded thinking really isn’t helpful. They don’t have mental health issues becuase they can’t meet a friend for a coffee they have them because maybe they have lost their job, their home, are suffering from PND from having had a baby while in lockdown, are struggling with what life has become. The meeting a friend is their treatment for want of a better word, can’t you see that? And for those calling for only single people to have a support bubble spare a thought for those like me who have young babies and husbands/partners who are working 8+ hours a day I need my support bubble and will not be giving it up. Whatever happened to waking a mile in someone’s shoes before passing judgment!

Of course if you're walking around a busy town/city centre, or a busy kids park then sure but masks as soon as you step out of the house is just too far.

I agree but they have to mandate it everywhere or people won't do it. I live in London and hardly anyone wears as mask outdoors even in a busy street.

Frankly if you don't wear a mask in an isolated field no one is going to see you to fine you anyway, are they?

If you shut nurseries and child minders then several of my work colleagues will not be at work. Like lots of essential key workers, they earn less than their oh so it is their job which will take the hit. Myself and other full time colleagues cannot work any more hours in exhausted and I'm not doing it. My health is more important than dealing with some random stranger, I'm not doing it. I already have to go into work I've been told I cannot wfh. We are all at breaking point having worked throughout this lockdown. I've even had to take on extra expense now I can no longer car share and I don't get reinbursed. I want the economy back up and running members of my family have lost their jobs through this and the mental toll is unbareable.
I'm beginning to think fuck it, everyone else is selfish, they voted for a selfish regime it's their own fault if it now bites them on the arse.

as others have pointed out, closing nurseries and childminders will force many of those businesses to close - and the parents that rely on them will lose their jobs. Many take away outlets are not geared up for delivery only and nor is cost-effective for them to operate that way. If they close now, many will close for good. I could go on.

Exactly. There are two competing pressures.

If you shut nurseries and child minders then several of my work colleagues will not be at work.

Yes they will as there would be exemptions for KW children, as in schools.

I've spoken to colleagues who saw their family on Boxing day in not harassing them up. We have to deal with shit from the public all day everyday. Again we are at breaking point.

I want the economy back up and running members of my family have lost their jobs through this and the mental toll is unbareable.

But it isnt going to happen unless we control the virus first. That's what I don't think people get. If you let it continue as is then the economy is shot to shit regardless.

This issue of essential workers quitting and leaving their non-essential partners at work needs to be dealt with. Could businesses be forced to furlough non-essential workers who are married to essential workers?

@BuggerBognor

I think media melodrama fatigue has set in - we’ve been hearing “doom” from the press since March. Psychologically humans are not built for sustained peril. Many are now just thinking “whatever”. Even my DM, who would have been the first to shop a neighbor for exercising twice in LD1 , has said she thinks she’d rather pop her clogs now than live like this for much longer. I concur.

I'm relieved to hear this kind of comment. I was wondering how much longer people would thrive on drama.

@Orf1abc

To be fair I know a lot of people , not just tories , that went on holiday the moment they were allowed to .

Celebrities who post it all over Instagram for a start .

Going away was not a class thing .

You cannot guarantee the nursery will stay open. Last time my colleagues paid even though it was closed to keep the nursery viable. I'm sick of hearing this nonsense. I can tell you for a fact not all businesses furlogh, it is not economically viable. I have family members who have been sacked because it is not worth the company furlough them.
Please stop talking bollocks.
I'm sat here thinking I really don't know if I can go to work tomorrow just received 2 bloody bills today, both increased. I'm bloody sick and tired of it.
Why should I give a fuck.

@BuggerBognor

I think media melodrama fatigue has set in - we’ve been hearing “doom” from the press since March. Psychologically humans are not built for sustained peril. Many are now just thinking “whatever”. Even my DM, who would have been the first to shop a neighbor for exercising twice in LD1 , has said she thinks she’d rather pop her clogs now than live like this for much longer. I concur.

Your DM is entitled to make that decision for herself - but she can’t make it for anyone else can she? Every time she ‘carries on as normal’, she is making a decision for wider society, and she has no right to do that.