Chris Whitty in The Times today - don't meet friends and family unnecessarily

[MrsMiaWallis]

"Emergency patients will be turned away from hospitals, causing “avoidable deaths”, unless the public starts obeying the lockdown, England’s chief medical officer warns today.
In a stark intervention designed to shock, Professor Chris Whitty warns that everyone who meets friends and family unnecessarily is a “link in a chain” that threatens the lives of vulnerable people"

Worth noting. I had to pick up a prescription from my local town and was surprised to see so many people - mainly middle aged women, some of whom I know and had always seemed like rational intelligent people - walking around town and chatting on the pavements, unmasked, no social distancing.

Apologies I don't know how to do share tokens.

I think people need to realise that sticking to the rules is Not enough . You are only minimising risk .

Whitty has been saying this for months .

@maturinsslothe

I've reached the point where frankly I don't much care if hundreds of thousands die - yes including my own loved ones and me. We are stupid, selfish, aggressive animals who have abused the earth we live on, and it would be a good thing for the planet and our own sense of superiority if we as a species were decimated. And the sheer fucking ignorance of people is jaw dropping. Let's have done with it. Let covid run riot. I just don't care anymore about "my fellow man". Fuck 'em. Too stupid to manage a pandemic. Too stupid to understand democracy. Too stupid to follow rules made for their own benefit. I'm having a bad day but honest to god, human beings are just so fucking disappointing

Why did you expect any different? Has this anger come from previous faith in humans?

[quote Unsure33]@GhostPepperTears

But you are saying in affect that the government has over estimated the intelligence of the British public.

And that we can not follow guidance. We need more LAWs.

I think a lot of people will disagree with that .[/quote]
I disagree. It seems like the government wants the best of both worlds - keeping businesses open so they don’t have to pay more in support for them and their workers, while also berating people for going to those businesses and when the NHS is overwhelmed they can say “well, we did say not to do that”.

I agree with one thing .The press have a lot to answer for. And perhaps more people read the papers than listen to updates.

Definitely not unbiased and very confusing headlines.

The government NEEDS to shut down AND IMPOSE furlough on MOST businesses except those which are GENUINELY essential.

The government can’t afford that. Our borrowing is going to have devastating consequences already (goodbye nhs in its current form for example) without adding more to it.

The U.K. needs businesses to remain competitive globally. With brexit and everything, now would be a catastrophic time to be cancelling contracts and and shutting doors.

I agree with the fear growing normal. I do not break rules but im becoming numb to the fear.

The outdoor being safe thing isn't necessarily true unless you are far enough away from other people. If you've seen how far your vaporised breath travels when it's cold, or seen someone smoking a cigarette when they breathe out, it's a lot further than you would expect.

Get all NHS staff vaccinated as extremely high priority (before anyone, including the 80+ year olds) so they can work. And ensure ALL hospitals are kept open so that there are enough beds. Utterly pointless closing hospitals when there is a beds shortage and having a high number of medical staff unable to work due to enforced self-isolation.

It seems like the government wants the best of both worlds - keeping businesses open so they don’t have to pay more in support for them and their workers, while also berating people for going to those businesses and when the NHS is overwhelmed they can say “well, we did say not to do that”.

Exactly. They’re trying to maintain the illusion of a lockdown that they cannot afford to support.

@lockdownconfused

I just feel that too many people don't want to listen anymore. They have managed to avoid being ill while meeting friends and family so far so are carrying on.

If you take away the word "anymore" from your sentence, then I agree.

There are far too people who have never accepted the guidance, and make any old excuse for ignoring it, or can't be bothered etc, because they think it doesn't affect them.

People who have avoided catching the virus so far, continuing to ignore the recommendations thinking they won't catch it, it's only flu, it's only .... xyz are in the grip of Normalisation of Deviance

Social normalization of deviance means that people become so much accustomed to a deviation that they don't consider it as deviant, despite the fact that they far exceed their own rules for elementary safety

It's like a dangerous driver who repeatedly overtakes on a blind end. The more often they escape death, or don't have a head on crash or don't knock down and maim a cyclist or pedestrian, it further reinforces their delusional view that it makes them a great driver. No, it makes them a selfish tosser, who should have their license taken away.

Like people who only care about "living their life", who will only stop when the police slap a big fine on them, and then they'll wail about their civil liberties.

The message might get across better if we weren't having to seeing professional footballers on TV, playing their sport, celebrating with hugs and singing and larking about in close contact in their changing rooms. I mean, they even put the Chorley FA cup footage on the main news.

That's really going to help with the compliance of the least compliant - young & middle aged males.

I am not stopping walking with a friend or stopping my teens walking with a friend unless evidence comes out to show it is high risk. And even then we ought to be permitted to do it while wearing a mask. It is the one thing making a difference this time round compared to lock down 1.

@Meredithgrey1

Well I run a business and the financial help as far as we are concerned has been very good . Clear and concise on gov uk and we have managed to keep going .

But I appreciate that not every business is the same. There are thousands on connotations of situations. And if people lose their livelihood then their mental health suffers and they become ill. So of course it’s a balancing act .

That we can not afford to support. We’ll all pay for it eventually.

It’s hard as the private mixing is where people can cut back but it’s hard to control.

We still need tax income so no issue with some work going ahead.

The deaths that are being seen currently in London (for example) aren’t from people chatting in the street last week, they are from tier 2 restrictions in December.

There is a lag between the 3 stages of infection, escalation of severity, and death. In the last week we have seen the initial hospitalisation from the Christmas mixing, and deaths from people who caught the virus earlier in December. Unfortunately over the next couple of weeks we will see deaths from current hospitalisations.

To say that the restrictions that came in 6 days ago aren’t working is quite premature.

Too much scaremongering. Yes the issues in the hospitals are real but.

So are you happy to wait until people die because the hospital beds are full? How many deaths or permanent disabilities do you think is acceptable?

We all have to take responsibility for NOT doing the ordinary everyday things that appear to be "no risk" - clearly, people are not good at assessing risk.

@Unsure33

I think people need to realise that sticking to the rules is Not enough . You are only minimising risk .

Whitty has been saying this for months .

Yep...I do suspect all he's asking is that people actually think hard about about whether they really need to drive x miles to take the socially distanced walked with a friend because that's what they normally do, or join the line in Costa, again because they normally do.

@fortyfifty

Yes I agree and there were people watching only half wearing masks.yuk.

This week I have heard of family members with mobile hairdressers in, family members picking each other up to mooch around shops, a FB friend flying back from a holiday booked recently, a thread on here about colleagues travelling to a business conference of 20+ facilitated by Hilton, kids in school and parents at gates who don't need to be, shoppers who think mask rules don't apply to them.

I'm not sure some people care. Those who are listening already act with caution.

I agree with PPs saying shops and workplaces should be made stricter.

I live 15 mins from a major retail park where every store except a furniture store is either fully open or open for click & collect. It's as busy as pre-Christmas when you drive past.

I also work in a key worker role where I could wfh 1-2 days per week but my employer refuses. Since lockdown 1 all 70ish of us have been in, working in shared offices full time. It's caused mass frustration and I feel for people who live alone and then get chastised for meeting for a SD walk outdoors when all this in-work mixing is occurring in plain sight.

@Bagamoyo1 "I remember hearing about people going out dancing in London during WW2, despite the air raids, and thinking “how could they take the risk?”.

nope this is different as its other people's lives you're playing with

@Worst

The deaths that are being seen currently in London (for example) aren’t from people chatting in the street last week, they are from tier 2 restrictions in December.

There is a lag between the 3 stages of infection, escalation of severity, and death. In the last week we have seen the initial hospitalisation from the Christmas mixing, and deaths from people who caught the virus earlier in December. Unfortunately over the next couple of weeks we will see deaths from current hospitalisations.

To say that the restrictions that came in 6 days ago aren’t working is quite premature.

I agree on lag absolutely, but we must be at Christmas time hospitalisation by now which is a bit concerning as mixing was mostly cancelled in London.

@notimagain

Also the driving thing is to reduce traffic on roads to reduce accidents and more pressure on health service . I think people miss that point.

This time last week schools were going to open to all children because they were safe.

EdwardCullensBiteOnTheSide

“The outdoor being safe thing isn't necessarily true unless you are far enough away from other people. If you've seen how far your vaporised breath travels when it's cold, or seen someone smoking a cigarette when they breathe out, it's a lot further than you would expect“

Way back in March on a still, misty, murky morning someone way ahead of me was vaping. I was maybe a minute behind them and the exhaled cloud was still hanging in the air as I approached so I was able to cross the road to avoid it.
Had that been breath I’d have had no idea and walked right through it.
The time it takes for tiny droplets to fall to the ground varies significantly according to atmospheric conditions.

The other problem we have is enforcing masks. We tell all customers they must wear one but we can't enforce it. Lots of people take their mask off and I have to them tell them to put the bloody thing back on.