Next announcement from Boris

[whoamitojudge]

Does anyone know when it is?
With all this new talk of this current lockdown not being enough I just wondered if maybe he’d step up and say something

I have 2 young children

The close of play parks wouldn’t bother me. We don’t really have a garden. But I home school. So I’m used to spending lots of time having to do lots of things with my kids anyway.

The support bubble wouldn’t bother me. Though I do think we need them.

I click and collect anyway. We don’t see anyone bar my mum but she lives with us.

I’d spend a month indoors if I had too. I’d spent 2 months indoors if I had too. I’d hate it. But I could do it. My grandmother lived through a war. Where she was sent to live with her auntie. Who locked her in w cupboards to keep her safe. I always think back to if she could. I can.

If support bubbles are removed i won't be complying.
I've done everything since March last year and followed every rule/guideline/law.

As a lone parent, the support bubble i have with my mum and step dad is the only interaction I have, and that my infant aged child has, with anyone else.
We're now at the point of barely existing.

He won't say anything now he will just reinforce the rules now.

@Reallybadidea

Why on earth aren't masks mandatory in all workplaces? I don't understand it. 'Covid secure' is meaningless if people are in the same room all day without decent ventilation and IME close contact is more or less inevitable in coffee rooms, toilets, etc.

This - I deliver to various businesses and Covid secure is a myth, they are all just effectively forming there own large bubbles with very few having mask wearing as the norm.

@Humpty11

I do think a lot of people are abusing the option of “support bubbles” Someone I know seems to be in multiple support bubbles so her life hasn’t changed at all.

I thought if you were single you could only pick one support bubble?

@BrigitsBigKnickers
If society would accept support bubbles being limited to the elderly and under 25s who are living totally alone and have no reason to mix with other households they could probably continue. The problem occurs when single parents whose children are already mixing with their other parents household want to be able to mix with further households.

^^
This, my (devoid of all sense) exH support bubbles with his family, they have a child who is in another bubble with his dad. His dad is in a support bubble with his family....
There’s over 15 people (that I know about) connected. ABSOLUTE FARCE.

What death rate and infection level would we need to reach before people thought ending support bubbles is the right thing?

Surely there must be a point at which it is necessary? If the virus is so widespread, wouldn’t most old and vulnerable people who live alone prefer to hold onto life than contact?

The trouble is, that the virus is often asymptomatic. It might be okay for non-vulnerable groups to get it from the person in their bubble who got it from the shops, or to pick it up whilst visiting the person in their support bubble and then pass it on, but the point is that the person in a vulnerable support bubble is probably seeing other people, perhaps through work or shops or whatever....they catch it and unwittingly pass it to their vulnerable friend in their bubble.

Close to 1/30 of London have it now, many with no symptoms. With it being very transmissible, support bubbles will be a key way it is passed on. Yes, being lonely is awful and damaging for mental health,but for the vulnerable, Covid is even more damaging.

@Pagan101

I think the majority of people who rely on a support bubble would flat out refuse to give theirs up if it turns out that's what the changes are. And yes, I'd be one of them.

Me too. The suggestions I keep seeing that support bubbles might or should end is making me very anxious.

What about the children who go into school as either vulnerable or critical worker children, who are also part of support bubbles because their parent is a single-parent....they might see 10 children or more in the week, each of whom also sees their support bubbles.....the vectors being created for the virus are just huge. People don’t seem to realise just how many contacts are created and the problems this causes when the virus is so transmissible.

If society would accept support bubbles being limited to the elderly and under 25s who are living totally alone and have no reason to mix with other households they could probably continue. The problem occurs when single parents whose children are already mixing with their other parents household want to be able to mix with further households.

So my friend whose husband died earlier this year shouldn't be allowed to see anyone at all because she's neither elderly nor under 25?

Some people won't be happy until everyone else is miserable!

If the virus is so widespread, wouldn’t most old and vulnerable people who live alone prefer to hold onto life than contact?

Not in my experience. They’re just as likely to think that they won’t be here much longer anyway and don’t want to spend their renaming time alone.

In many cases, support bubbles are filling gaps that social care cannot fill (and are probably less risky assuming the rules are being adhered to).

[quote StatisticalSense]@itsgettingweird
It would be a terrible idea. The message that that would give is that it is alright to be in busy public areas as long as you are wearing a mask when in actual fact it would be much safer for nobody to be in such areas (and there is no reason for anyone to be in such areas).[/quote]
Yeah I can see that point but thinking things like when queuing outside for supermarkets etc.

@Meredithgrey1

I’d like to see them clamp down harder on employers insisting on people coming in, despite them being able to wfh. A manager being a control freak who is incapable of managing unless people are sat in front of them is not a valid reason to force people to mix in an office.

I think takeaways may stop though.

This

At what point do you look at the queues of ambulances outside hospitals and read about the lack of oxygen and spiralling death rates and decide you just have to put up wi5 your anxiety for a while....even though that might feel truly awful.

How many of you insisting on keeping your support bubbles live with or have spoken to people who are working in hospitals this week and heard what it’s actually like. It has to become a case of deciding what is the greatest evil...a decision the government will have to take and not an easy one.

There must be a point when the problem is so vast support bubbles for all but a tiny fraction of society cannot be allowed as the cost is too great. The question is where is that tipping point really.

Ending support bubbles would be downright cruel. They are called “extended households” in Scotland so no different in terms of risk than if they lived together. I wonder how many people calling for them to be abolished live alone and face not seeing another person for months on end.

I'll get the Boris Bingo scorecards out again.

There's lots of other measures that can be implemented before support bubbles are scrapped Honestly am interested if whether anyone calling for this happen lives alone or is vulnerable. I think it is a very easy thing to say if you've been with a partner/kids/parent for the last 9 months.

Important ones are stricter enforcement on wfh and far more stringent criteria for who is a key worker and therefore needs a school place. I am a university academic and all HE staff have been defined as key workers. I'm in health based field and pretty much all my colleagues are reluctant to send their children in as they know the public health risk (ie the less children in school the better), but because they are technically "allowed" are not having any support from line managers regarding work.

Hello- people people keep replying to a message I didn't post as if it was me. Someone included my name in a quote and now posters think I said it!
It was StatisticalSense who posted about the under 25 group!

[quote StatisticalSense]@PinkSparklyPussyCat
Not as cruel as closing take-aways, or even coffee shops, in the middle of winter when a sizable number of people rely on such establishments in order to have access to hot food and drinks.[/quote]
I'm not convinced how much business Starbucks or Costa gets from our local homeless population, not at their prices. Macdonald's maybe or the local cafe, and they sell proper food so could open.

@MadameBlobby yup here in England in the legislation they are referred to as linked households

Some people on here won’t be happy unless everything that makes life vaguely tolerable for some people has been removed. As long as it’s not them affected of course.

@Ylvamoon close public parks? Many of us don’t have a garden, should daily exercise/walks be taken on the streets going forward I don’t think you can expect to see fewer crowds.

maybe a pause on support bubbles rather than lose them, that sounds cruel

The trouble is, that lots of people cannot see a bigger picture, but just their own situation.

And I think that’s human nature. It’s why government has to legislate and make clear rules rather than just hope people err on the more cautious side of a not-very strict set of rules. When it’s permissible to go to garden centres, the supermarket, a walk with a friend, to the DIY shop, some people will do all those things over the course of a day or two and feel it’s fine. They won’t grasp how many people they’ve had contact with or that they haven’t really ‘stayed at home’ at all.

Boris dreads telling people what to do, he absolutely hates it and it goes against all his beliefs. I understand that. But sometimes in a crisis government has to be more directive. The time is coming. People won’t like it, but if the government doesn’t get more directive, left to their own devices people will just carry on circulating and feeling it’s okay because there isn’t a clear enough rule saying not to. And the deaths will keep rising.

Once we’ve all had an elderly relative or contact die of it, will we re-think what’s needed then? Probably not u less we are expressly directed to act in a certain way.

why do people think anything will change? no hint from government to that at all - just singular scientists?

Whilst i strongly believe bubbles and workplaces are the issue now, i don't think they'll close them because of a) mental health issues are huge, suicides are rising etc - press would have field day if they did
b) people need to make money and who's to say what is essential?

Plus cases aren't rising that much - 7% rise in a week- deaths are rising and will rise but cases aren't so much