Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

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Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

Oh @Itisasecret I don’t think I’ve expressed myself very well. I’m fully aware of the need to keep the legal system ticking over. I’m a prison officer, I saw first had the damage that arose from the decision to pause it.

I more meant that comparing it to March (cars on the road, people out and about etc) was a bit of a waste of time, because the number of things that people are expected/required to do is greater this time. Hope that makes more sense!

Support bubbles and childcare bubbles are important but there are many peoples I know who use this as an excuse to see their bubble every day when they don’t need to ‘because we’re in a bubble’. Still doesn’t mean you can’t catch it from each other and seeing each other more than you need to will increase the change of passing it to each other

@GoldenOmber I do agree with you completely.

There are plenty of people who need to attend work. There is no other viable alternative for them at all. They are also taking one hell of a risk in order to carry out their jobs and I'm so grateful for that.

It is the employers who are at it that need to stop. But they won't until they are directly told no other choice.

Businesses being allowed to designate their workers as being "critical" when they're not is my issue.

There is a massive difference between "key" "essential" and ones who some businesses have decided to label as being "critical" when they're not at all.

Traffic from them is to be expected. All it has done this time around is cause this lockdown to go on for longer as more transmission has been allowed to happen.

@FamBae

The health service is on it's knees:

- Stop religious services
- Stop allowing people to meet for exercise
- Stop non-essential work being carried out in people's houses i.e. cleaners, new carpets, etc
- Close places offering takeaway food
- Close off the non essential aisle's in B and M and the like.
- Click and collect only in garden centres and the like - no browsing

THIS!

I have just had a long chat with ds who heads a district nursing team, The NHS is struggling like never before, it's bloody scary.

Quite agree!

I have been chatting with my cousin who works in a hospital in London and she says it’s really bad. Staff are exhausted with no end in sight.

People going outdoors for a walk or bike ride isn't an issue.

The problem is that millions still go to work and/or meet people indoors.

The focus should be on indoor mixing.

Lockdown evidently isn’t working very well. So why is the answer ‘more lockdown’?

We’ve got a health service that’s been in dire and increasing need of investment and improvement for over 40 years and people are blithering on about garden centres.

The phrase ‘gnats and camels’ springs to mind.

Stop religious services
Stop allowing people to meet for exercise
Stop non-essential work being carried out in people's houses i.e. cleaners, new carpets, etc
Close places offering takeaway food
Close off the non essential aisle's in B and M and the like.
Click and collect only in garden centres and the like - no browsing

With the possible exception of religious services and non-essential work in people's houses, disallowing most of the above will make no sodding difference at all.

You need to get masks on the kids in schools. Now.

Schools are key - they need sorting. Likewise people coming in from abroad. Hopefully this is what they mean.

I think the schools issue is a huge factor here. Many of the schools round here have over 50% of children in along with most staff. Add shedloads of parents into the mix twice a day and they are a huge vector. The government really cocked up here with their criteria for getting a place. I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised though, they’ve cocked up with so many other things.

Whilst schools have this many people in, this partial ‘lockdown’ will just go on and on

Napody
That’s exactly when schools and the government should be stricter in listing which departments of industries are regarded as key workers.

A friend’s job is listed on the government’s website as a key worker. It’s in the IT department for an industry that if it wasn’t available the country would be on its knees. So pretty big (without going into too much detail)
It’s the only department of his company that is listed because if they couldn’t do their job then nobody in the company can do theirs and the ‘big’ service that they provide the country wouldn’t be available. A they we’re also the only department the company gave letters to last year incase they were stopped by the Police.
So not every company is taking the mick.

So yes they do need to be more specific as to which departments of industries etc are included.

People going outdoors for a walk or bike ride isn't an issue.

The problem is that millions still go to work and/or meet people indoors.

The focus should be on indoor mixing.

Quite.

A really big reason why the UK has done so badly is because people are so distracted by beaches and benches. The virus is VERY hard to pass around out of doors unless there is serious crowding, like festivals (which are already not allowed).

You need to ventilate indoor areas, space people out and get everyone wearing a mask. Including the kids at primary, when they are indoors.

The issue is that it’s a novel virus that’s highly contagious.
Here’s the answer. We all stay in. For eight weeks. No one goes anywhere. Heart attack in that time? Unlucky. Pregnant? Unlucky. Starving? Unlucky.
It’s the only way we’ll get rid of it. Else guess what. We will come back out of it and it’ll happen again.

Where I live it is market day. Queues down the street for the supermarket are 100 metres long. There are hundreds in the town and my walk in the park was packed.

What lockdown?

I think people who are calling for absolutely everything to close are ignoring the financial impact, which will undoubtedly kill some and make life less pleasant for many years to come for the majority. There is a balance

@Kokeshi123

People going outdoors for a walk or bike ride isn't an issue.

The problem is that millions still go to work and/or meet people indoors.

The focus should be on indoor mixing.

Quite.

A really big reason why the UK has done so badly is because people are so distracted by beaches and benches. The virus is VERY hard to pass around out of doors unless there is serious crowding, like festivals (which are already not allowed).

You need to ventilate indoor areas, space people out and get everyone wearing a mask. Including the kids at primary, when they are indoors.

I also agree with this. So many non-essential places of work/business are open and no-one is policing this.

Plus someone needs to point out that 2 weeks ago 44% of the population mixed households indoors in a manner endorsed by the government. So 2 weeks later we have a huge increase in case numbers and hospitalisations and in another 2 weeks there will be another big rise in deaths. This is the government's fault for not being stricter about Christmas Day.

If they made it stricter, would it still allow for animal welfare? I've currently got two horses to feed (only one is min e, but her owner lives in Halifax).

Maybe they should look at the reality stars abroad in Dubai and people like fern McCaan who has just flown back from South Africa!

@YouLikeTheBadOnesToo

Oh *@Itisasecret* I don’t think I’ve expressed myself very well. I’m fully aware of the need to keep the legal system ticking over. I’m a prison officer, I saw first had the damage that arose from the decision to pause it.

I more meant that comparing it to March (cars on the road, people out and about etc) was a bit of a waste of time, because the number of things that people are expected/required to do is greater this time. Hope that makes more sense!

Ahh yes, I agree.

@Heathercob

If they made it stricter, would it still allow for animal welfare? I've currently got two horses to feed (only one is min e, but her owner lives in Halifax).

In the first lockdown there was a specific guidance for horse owners (which was very generous apparently). I would expect the same to apply now.

@Splodgetastic

Incidentally in our workplace we had to get special permission to leave the country over Christmas (and this is a private sector company, not anything critical to national security or anything), so maybe workplaces should be encouraged more to encourage people.

We had to as well. They didn’t want people stuck abroad.

@Lifeispassingby

Support bubbles and childcare bubbles are important but there are many peoples I know who use this as an excuse to see their bubble every day when they don’t need to ‘because we’re in a bubble’. Still doesn’t mean you can’t catch it from each other and seeing each other more than you need to will increase the change of passing it to each other

I don’t know why you think you should have any say over how people use support bubbles and how often

@Seeline

People are abusing the bubble system. Either intentionally or through ignorance.

Some people are regularly travelling significant distances to be with their support bubbles which must help with the spread.

How does me driving 15 miles to sit in my DP’s house contribute to the spread?

@Kokeshi123

Stop religious services Stop allowing people to meet for exercise Stop non-essential work being carried out in people's houses i.e. cleaners, new carpets, etc Close places offering takeaway food Close off the non essential aisle's in B and M and the like. Click and collect only in garden centres and the like - no browsing

With the possible exception of religious services and non-essential work in people's houses, disallowing most of the above will make no sodding difference at all.

You need to get masks on the kids in schools. Now.

Completely agree with this.

Garden centres, 2 people meeting for exercise and collecting takeaways are NOT the issue!

@Glenorma

Lots of businesses are claiming to be key workers this time around because they don’t want to close again. BIL sells doors etc, his boss claims they’re part of the construction industry so therefore not required to close. It’s ridiculous!

Surely that doesn’t make them key workers though? I run a trade business and wouldn’t ever think we were key workers...

One problem is that construction is allowed to carry on. Personally I would feel better if we were told to lockdown for the next few weeks. It worries me that my staff are going into peoples houses and the risk that poses to them and the customers despite PPE, ventilation etc but there is no help this round with wages, bills etc if we shut so we carry on.

With the possible exception of religious services and non-essential work in people's houses, disallowing most of the above will make no sodding difference at all

You need to get masks on the kids in schools. Now.

Yes, 100%. If you look at countries with universal mask wearing their rates of covid and death rates are much better, their schooling and economy much less disrupted.

The debate no-one seems to want to have - I don't know why - is WHY is our society willing to accept so much damage to life, mental health and the economy just because they don't want (and don't want their kids) to wear a mask? I mean, surely it would be worth it?

Also, there are loads of WHO videos showing how to wear a mask properly but I've seen no public messaging using this from UK government - there should be posters, infomercials etc. Why not? It wouldn't cost anything to use the WHO materials.