Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

Link

Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

@justanotherneighinparadise I think
That poster is on the wind up

@Skipsurvey... M&S clothing dept struggles at the best of times. I though for this lockdown we were just supposed to be “essentials” shopping? 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Skipsurvey

M & S are greedy and should close off their clothing section.

Though on this thread it’s hard to know who’s taking the piss

it is more transmittable
things have to change

@Sitt

I’m surprised at how many people have previously never realised how many people are working in essential services to keep the country going. It’s like some people still see “jobs” as a basic list you might get in a children’s book and haven’t considered the wider range of things we rely on to keep society functioning.

Yes, like all the people who say that those of us with children should just take unpaid leave or give up our jobs if we can’t care for them and work at the same time.

Meanwhile, of course, they still presumably want their internet working and their pay coming and their electricity running and their bank functioning and their local services running and their deliveries provided and their child benefit paid and...

in England we should follow the strictness that happened in Wales, although I am not sure if that worked?

the government have told us it is more transmissible, so put rules to reflect that

@YouLikeTheBadOnesToo

There are big differences between this lockdown and the first one.

In March FIL was able to close his business, because government grants allowed him to do. Those grants aren’t available this time (he’s enquired). He has no choice but to carry on working, and asking his staff to come to work.

In March MOTs were suspended, allowing garages to close and people to stay at home. That’s not the case this time. There are almost 25 million MOTs a year. That works out as almost 500,000 journeys a week that people are currently LEGALLY forced to make.

My husband was due to start jury duty during the March Lockdown, they contacted him to say it was cancelled and sent a letter changing the date he’d be required to attend. The new date is in a couple of weeks. He contacted them on Friday to ask if this was still the case, and yes he is LEGALLY required to attend.

To be fair, legal issues are a human rights issues. People are in prison who maybe innocent because the courts closed last time. They won’t let that happen again. Keeping a functioning legal system is essential. You can’t detain someone indefinitely when they may actually be innocent. I know that sounds ironic right now.

However, that is because like all public services, the legal sector is massively underfunded and broken and not fit for purpose. It’s under huge strain much like, defence, police, nhs and education.

I think they will give it 2 weeks.

If the rates of Infection aren't coming down at that point they will have to tighten things up.

As PPs have pointed out the current infection rates are from new year, current death rates are from pre Xmas.

@CKBJ

I posted this on another thread:

I think schools including nurseries should only offer places for NHS/Care/Police/Fire staff for the next 2-3weeks. As this would stop many people with children from working it would become a very harsh lockdown for 2-3weeks and therefore disrupt the covid transmission. Yes work places will suffer, including those that are critical, however with the way numbers are increasing it calls for drastic action. This should be known as Total Lockdown,we then revert back to the current lockdown and as soon as possible (End Feb/Mar) move the country back down the tier system.

I assume you would still expect to be supplied with your gas, electric, broadband, tv etc etc All of these industries require essential staff to be able to provide these things for you so if they can’t work due to no school place for their children how are you going to feel then?

@Daydreamsinglorioustechnicolor

I work in an office (NHS) and can do my job from home, so I am, whilst also trying to home school like many others. Our school has said both parents must be keyworkers to get the school place, and also unable to work from home. Which I agree with, however our work has emailed everyone to say they are entitled to the school place and to bring it up with the LA if your school is saying differently. Also, no one has made any attempt to identify which roles (in my department) can be carried out from home. Its down to individuals who may feel under some pressure from colleagues or line managers to be in the office. So this is an NHS Trust, who could be doing more to reduce the numbers in the office, and reduce the numbers if children in school. Rather they are encouraging people to use a key worker space if they are entitled to it. I'm wondering if the stance will change on this because they have previously 'reminded' staff that whilst it might be within the rules to do xyz, all mixing contributes to the spread and so on.

I don't understand why the rule isn't both parents must be key workers and unable to wfh.

That is shocking - I agree that schools should be able to enforce your suggested rule if numbers are still unacceptable.

I think the keyworker list will have to be cut at some point, it's not sustainable. PPs who have added teachers, supermarket/delivery drivers to CKBJ's list....well, yes, but you do realise that the current list is far far longer than this? Do you agree that it should be cut?

Even if the restrictions were as strict as last March there isn't the level of fear now that there was then, particularly among young healthy people, and these people have had enough of curtailing their lives for others. Which is sad. Our only hope now is the vaccine.

@GoldenOmber Quite clearly I'm talking about the ones who are to put it bluntly, taking the absolute piss.

They are able to access furlough funding but instead are choosing not to.

The same as they will only close their doors once they have no other choice to do so when and if NS tightens up the rules. She is looking at the whole click and collect also as a lot are taking the absolute piss there too. Blatantly so.

There are also ones who are ignoring numerous other Covid rules so there will be lots of spreading going on there!

Timbucktime yes....but the point is that anyone working in such an industry (even in advertising etc) could be included. Your job role and ability to wfh is relevant too. The list needs looking at again - it's easy to quibble with CKBJ and add a couple of things to her list, but her point is solid.

The health service is on it's knees:

- Stop religious services
- Stop allowing people to meet for exercise
- Stop non-essential work being carried out in people's houses i.e. cleaners, new carpets, etc
- Close places offering takeaway food
- Close off the non essential aisle's in B and M and the like.
- Click and collect only in garden centres and the like - no browsing

THIS!

I have just had a long chat with ds who heads a district nursing team, The NHS is struggling like never before, it's bloody scary.

I agree. The 2 girls meeting for coffee miles from their house. People claiming / the definition of key workers.
Ridiculous. All needs tightening up.

@mummabear4321 I am also in sw in a town and can get some online but not weekly
I hate going to the supermarket as they are a free for all in a lot if them around here .

[quote DinosaurDigestive]@GoldenOmber Quite clearly I'm talking about the ones who are to put it bluntly, taking the absolute piss.

They are able to access furlough funding but instead are choosing not to.

The same as they will only close their doors once they have no other choice to do so when and if NS tightens up the rules. She is looking at the whole click and collect also as a lot are taking the absolute piss there too. Blatantly so.

There are also ones who are ignoring numerous other Covid rules so there will be lots of spreading going on there![/quote]
Yes there are several doing that, but what I’m saying is, not everybody travelling to work is finding loopholes and not every business staying open is taking the piss.

So there will be more journeys and more mixing and more people on the roads, and not because people aren’t taking covid seriously enough on an individual levels.

@Itisasecret

Yes I do. One thing I’ve learnt, if it is in the Telegraph it is happening. The fact that they printing that schools are too busy, too many people are in work is mind boggling. The writing is on the wall. It’s a bit worrying if I’m honest.

I read the Telegraph (among other papers) and it's true they either have influence or inside knowledge. I suspect it was the DT who forced PHE to cut the red tape for recruitment of volunteer / paid vaccinators.

Lots of businesses are claiming to be key workers this time around because they don’t want to close again. BIL sells doors etc, his boss claims they’re part of the construction industry so therefore not required to close. It’s ridiculous!

Incidentally in our workplace we had to get special permission to leave the country over Christmas (and this is a private sector company, not anything critical to national security or anything), so maybe workplaces should be encouraged more to encourage people.

This lockdown has been in place for 3 or 4 days. I think we need to give it a bit more time to judge - current infections / hospitals and deaths are driven by December / Christmas. I am not sure compliance would be improved by adding more restrictions- especially if there is any chatter about this before. What has happened before each set of changes is people have mixed more 'while they can' driving up cases at just thd wrong times. We need policies to be as consistent as possible.

@Bewareoftheblob

I feel like I'm living in some hideous build-up to 1984.

Same. There’s too many similarities to the novel 1984. Not sure how they can impose stricter restrictions. Maybe they’ll fine us if we leave our houses. Maybe media reports will become even more heavily censored.

It’s scary how members of the public are begging for the government to take even more of our human rights away. If this virus was really that deadly, then healthy young people would be suffering, as people do with TB. Britain would also prevent people coming in to the island via plane or boat. What’s the point in imprisoning us if people can swan into the country untested?

@IcedPurple I agree, but if you confront them they will say you are the one breaching the rules.

@4Mongrels

*Friends met up ( unintentially) so blocked a busy end aisle to chat....I asked them to move on but they told me to fuck off and mind my own they weren’t hurting anyone ( people had to get round then leaving a foot or so to squeeze past)

Customer with mask pulled down, one of several I asked to put on correctly but one was rude back*

There was a thread yesterday about people meeting and chatting i supermarkets. The OP was given a bit of a hard time about it because it may be the only contact people have etc. The health of retail workers does not seem to be taken into account by some people.

People should be shopping, on their own whenever possible, for food and any medicines needed. The Easter Eggs, scented candle and bed line can wait!

Retail workers have to be in shops for hours on end, we could all help a little bit by minimising our time in stores and help keep their workplace as safe as possible.

Thankyou!!!