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Original poster

Two Women fined for walking for Starbucks

648 replies

Superketchup · 08/01/2021 13:17

What rule have they broken? I don’t understand. Two of them met - yes can meet one other person - they’d driven 5 miles - surely that’s ok?! - and they had a Starbucks each which the police said was a picnic?!
Why are they keeping takeaways open if it’s agaisnt the law to get one? I took my kids to the park, the coffee shop was open for takeaway. It was freezing. We got a hot chocolate each. I’m too scared to do so again!

OP posts:
benedicto · 09/01/2021 10:51

[quote trulydelicious]@benedicto

I understand that. But if the message is stay at home stay local even if there is little detail, at what point does it become common sense to get into a car, drive 5 miles and meet a friend for a coffee? (unless you had to drive to do essential shopping, go to a pharmacy, etc)[/quote]
No, the law says you can travel for 'outdoor exercise. This should be done locally wherever possible, but can travel a short distance within your area to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)"

So travelling a short distance to access an open space is entirely within the spirit of the stay at home message. The government don't actually want us to stay indoors for 3 months getting unfit and losing the very lung capacity that might save us if we get Covid-19 eventually (when schools go back or we have to go back to work in the office etc).

freezedriedromance · 09/01/2021 10:52

Derbyshire police have now issued a statement saying they got it wrong and are reviewing all fines issued so far. They've been instructed by the NPCC to enforce the law, not the guidelines. The actual law states you can travel for exercise, no restrictions on distance, crossing counties etc. The guidance asks you to stay local, whatever you deem local to be, but that isn't the law and you cannot be fined by the police for it.

Grandtheft · 09/01/2021 10:52

Next week is my friend's birthday. A big birthday. We both live alone and I'm damned if I'm not going to try and make our 'birthday walk' as special as possible for him. There will be flasks of hot drinks, there will be cake (and I have a sparkler to put in it) and there will be savoury snacks. We plan to walk for 3 - 4 hours as usual. My friend can't see his family (he was even alone on Christmas Day) and I haven't seen any of my family for over a year now. We both have high pressure jobs and supporting each other (as 2 singles who both live alone) is how we've got through the past 10 months. We're not breaking any laws. We're not putting anyone at risk. We will exercise AND try to enjoy his birthday as it's one of the few things we have left before we all go bloody insane.

Brilliant! Hope you both have a lovely time 🤗

benedicto · 09/01/2021 10:53

Common sense is all very well, but you can't police by common sense. Clearly 5 miles is within the spirit of 'you can travel a short distance within your area to do so if necessary'. And yet apparently I can still get fined for doing this. It is not a matter of common sense if the police are able to decide what is common sense on an ad-hoc basis.

Seasaltyhair · 09/01/2021 10:53

It’s scary when it’s evident our police are behaving like brain dead bouncers. This is not the first incident I’ve read like this.

I think some of them enjoy being arseholes tbh

merrymouse · 09/01/2021 10:54

at what point does it become common sense to get into a car, drive 5 miles and meet a friend for a coffee?

When the least populated walking spot is 5 miles away?

Same4Walls · 09/01/2021 10:55

They've been instructed by the NPCC to enforce the law, not the guidelines.

It's pretty bloody worrying that the people tasked with enforcing the law needed to be explicitly told by the NPCC that this was their job.... Confused

merrymouse · 09/01/2021 10:57

They've been instructed by the NPCC to enforce the law, not the guidelines.

Why were the police under the impression that they could enforce guidelines? Doesn’t that imply are very worrying misunderstanding if the law?

Whatever9999 · 09/01/2021 11:02

[quote trulydelicious]@benedicto

I understand that. But if the message is stay at home stay local even if there is little detail, at what point does it become common sense to get into a car, drive 5 miles and meet a friend for a coffee? (unless you had to drive to do essential shopping, go to a pharmacy, etc)[/quote]
As I said in my previous post, I dont have a car so my definition of local is different to someone that does have one. I'm also rural, so again my definition is probably different to someone that lives in a town (for me local is probably within a 15-20mile radius and very local is within a 10mile radius because that is how far I would have to travel to get to one of the bigger supermarkets and any of the chain non-essential, or even essential shops while someone living in a town or city would only have to travel a couple of miles at most).

Common sense also tells me that its better for me to go slightly further out from even where I live (I can be in the middle of a field within 5min of leaving my house) than walking on the narrow paths in my immediate vicinity. Samr common sense tells me that its probably safer for someone to drive 10miles to a quiet area where they won't meet anyone (or hardly anyone) than it is for them to walk round a busy housing estate.

benedicto · 09/01/2021 11:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

benedicto · 09/01/2021 11:04

But it is entirely within the spirit and wording of the law, so why shouldn't I be able to do this also without fear of being fined on the way to, during or after that exercise?

amicissimma · 09/01/2021 11:07

@Same4Walls

They've been instructed by the NPCC to enforce the law, not the guidelines.

It's pretty bloody worrying that the people tasked with enforcing the law needed to be explicitly told by the NPCC that this was their job.... Confused

It's even more worrying that, if MN is any indication, there are people who support the police when they try to use powers that they do not have and decide for themselves what is lawful, regardless of whether or not it is.
FortunesFavour · 09/01/2021 11:39

This was an abuse of power by the police against people who had not broken the law.
The officers concerned should be disciplined accordingly.

CaptainMyCaptain · 09/01/2021 12:01

In the first lockdown an officer from South Yorkshire Police tried to fine someone for sitting in their front garden. They were disciplined or at least someone higher up 'had a word'.

MrsWindass · 09/01/2021 12:09

Exercising
You should minimise time spent outside your home, but you can leave your home to exercise. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area

What do you not understand @Superketchup?

MrsWindass · 09/01/2021 12:09

@FortunesFavour

This was an abuse of power by the police against people who had not broken the law. The officers concerned should be disciplined accordingly.
They broke the law
freezedriedromance · 09/01/2021 12:15

@MrsWindass it sounds like it's you who doesn't understand. What you're quoting is the GUIDANCE. The actual legislation has no restrictions on exercise and the area you must exercise in. Police enforce the law, not guidance. They cannot legally fine someone when said person hasn't broken the law. Which is why Derby police have now had to issue a statement saying they were incorrect and are reviewing the fines.

MrsWindass · 09/01/2021 12:17

Ok thats great so let's all play to the guidance and keep this lockdown going .

VinylDetective · 09/01/2021 12:20

Mind you I don't feel i do much but work 7 days a week to keep people in leisure on furlough

Oh, do stop parroting this bollocks @Xenia. Every bloody thread. What do you want people who can’t work to do? Starve and live in a cardboard box? You’re not even paying it, it’s going on the national credit card.

Againstmachine · 09/01/2021 12:20

Some people don't understand difference between should and must in the guidelines.

benedicto · 09/01/2021 12:22

@Againstmachine

Some people don't understand difference between should and must in the guidelines.
Including those enforcing them.
benedicto · 09/01/2021 12:24

@MrsWindass

*Exercising You should minimise time spent outside your home, but you can leave your home to exercise. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area*

What do you not understand @Superketchup?

And under the Guidance for exercise it states:

"outdoor exercise. This should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel a short distance within your area to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space"

Travel for exercise within your area is expressly permitted.

(and 'area' is not defined).

lazylinguist · 09/01/2021 12:24

What on earth does 'let's all play to the guidance' mean? We are supposed to follow the guidance. That's literally what it's there for. I follow the law on things they've made law, and the guidance on things they've made guidance. Guidance says local area. They have deliberately not specified distance.

QueenoftheAir · 09/01/2021 12:28

Ok thats great so let's all play to the guidance and keep this lockdown going

Totally agree with you @MrsWindass but you'll get flak on this thread from those who are in denial about how bad things are, and how our small everyday actions might be contributing to how bad things are.

Underhisi · 09/01/2021 12:31

"My parents who live in Ticknall nearby say the police were outside the reservoir giving everyone fines who went to the car park."

In that case the police aren't even following guidelines since a) the guidelines state you are allowed to drive to exercise and b) the guidelines state some people are allowed to exercise away from their local area.