Two Women fined for walking for Starbucks

[Superketchup]

What rule have they broken? I don’t understand. Two of them met - yes can meet one other person - they’d driven 5 miles - surely that’s ok?! - and they had a Starbucks each which the police said was a picnic?!
Why are they keeping takeaways open if it’s agaisnt the law to get one? I took my kids to the park, the coffee shop was open for takeaway. It was freezing. We got a hot chocolate each. I’m too scared to do so again!

[quote Vitaminsss]@TrustTheGeneGenie no one’s stopping you from walking, walking doesn’t require a car. Nor does it require a beauty spot. Nor does it require Starbucks ffs[/quote]
it does require a car if you dont have anywhere that isnt a housing estate to walk near you. there are no rules against any of those things.

You might revel in being miserable, but most of us dont.

@TwoLeftSocksWithHoles

I suppose if a Scotch Egg is a 'substantial meal' then a Starbucks coffee can be a picnic, and a Polo mint will be a light snack.

Agree with PPs.
Very much an OTT response by the Derbyshire police (must have been a slow real crime day!) and is, what I consider, an abuse of police powers.
I sincerely hope it is contested and thrown out in court!

Why would you have to drive 5 miles to have a walk? That is exactly taking the piss out of these rules - 5 miles for one person, drive to the Lake District/Brecon Beacons for another - all selfish idiots. Presumably the vast majority of humans living in the UK can go to their outside door and start walking from there?

You do realise this is going to go on for months. Years. If all there is is walking on my own around a housing estate then frankly what’s the point?

@ginghamstarfish

Why would you have to drive 5 miles to have a walk? That is exactly taking the piss out of these rules - 5 miles for one person, drive to the Lake District/Brecon Beacons for another - all selfish idiots. Presumably the vast majority of humans living in the UK can go to their outside door and start walking from there?

I think the legislation does specify 'local'. I doubt anyone considers driving across the country to be local and that is not what is being discussed here. We are discussing the fact that the police do not consider 5 miles to be local, whereas most people do.

"except I would scrap the 1hr rule for daily exercise, and allow people to decide for themselves how much exercise they need."

There isn't a one hour rule and wasn't even in March. It was an off the cuff remark by Michael Gove which was not law or guidance.

Some people are evidently enjoying being in a position of minor power. Frightening.

The point is that these thousands upon thousands of small 'local' interactions (although clearly the definition of local varies wildly for some) is just why the whole country is in such a state. So these women were clearly thinking 'well I can just do xxx and it's fine, doesn't make any difference, blah blah, I'm special etc etc.' Multiply that by many, many thousands of such examples in a day - and then they wonder why we have one of the worst rates in the world. FFS.

[quote RaspberryCoulis]Who's the Chief Constable of Derbyshire Police and who's (s)he trying to impress?

Their officers were incredibly over-zealous last time round too. Repeated tweeting about people "flouting", drone footage, dyeing water to stop people swimming.

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-derbyshire-police-dye-buxton-blue-lagoon-black-to-deter-gatherings-11964966[/quote]
That lake is actually a problem without coronavirus as its very dangerous and contains chemicals. I'm kind of with them on that one.

Derbyshire Police have shamed our policing traditions.
This.
Clearly there us no real crime in Derbyshire. Obviously the police service there is over/manned snd there should be redundancies -starting with those two muppets.

I suppose if a Scotch Egg is a 'substantial meal' then a Starbucks coffee can be a picnic, and a Polo mint will be a light snack

Good point actually

It seems some people will only be happy when people leave the house to buy bread and milk ONLY and you must be sweating blood in order for exercise it to properly count...

The whole reason the law is so vague is because they know that there are so many varying 'essentials' from one person to the next. You can't put a blanket ban on walking and say it's wrong just because you're holding a coffee and are in a pretty place at the same time. Honestly baffled that people have come to this.

@QueenoftheAir

Apparently the police are saying five miles was not in the spirit of lockdown.

And given what I've quoted direct from the Government guidance, the police are correct.

"Exercise" is permitted, but you should not travel to do so. It's exercise not "exercise in a pretty spot*.

Those of us living in the middle of cities will either have to take long walks, or start to appreciate our immediate surroundings.

You are incorrect, it specifically says you can drive to exercise

I drive 6 miles a day to take my daughter to nursery .. I won’t be stopping doing it, fine away! This police force sound like they are on a power trip!

The whole reason the law is so vague is because they know that there are so many varying 'essentials' from one person to the next.

Exactly.

I mean, if I was being selfish, I'd far rather support bubbles were banned and schools were closed because I'm confident they contribute far more to spread than two people meeting in an uncrowded outside space ten minutes from their home, not to mention all the travel it involves where people might break down and need to call out the AA. But i accept that for some people these things are a lifeline and absolutely essential. For other people, meeting a friend a short distance away and getting some fresh air and exercise is absolutely essential for their mental health. None of these things are against the law and nobody should be fined for doing them. If they want to set limits on acceptable travel for exercise, set limits.

The legislation does not specify local as suggested above although

See page 5 of this www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1611/pdfs/uksi_20201611_en.pdf

Page 5 allows recreation at a a public outdoor place - not just exercise.
Public outdoor place - page 6 - includes things like botanical gardens. In my view that means the law is saying it is fine to drive to somewhere although if you drive 200 miles you probably aren't limiting yourself to "what is reasonably necessary".

I could probably lawfully drive to Kew Gardens rather than just have to walk around my streets but I cannot do either of them as I am working so hard to keep people in total idleness on furlough whilst they tramp up and down on our private road dropping litter, dog poo, drug stuff and much else which I then clear up.

The point is that these thousands upon thousands of small 'local' interactions (although clearly the definition of local varies wildly for some) is just why the whole country is in such a state. So these women were clearly thinking 'well I can just do xxx and it's fine, doesn't make any difference, blah blah, I'm special etc etc.' Multiply that by many, many thousands of such examples in a day - and then they wonder why we have one of the worst rates in the world. FFS.

No, it really isn't the point at all. Individuals meeting one other person OUTDOORS for a walk and a chat is probably keeping a lot of people just about sane at the moment, including me.

It's not comparable to people meeting up in groups indoors, as happened up and down the country over Christmas, and in my small town alone has caused a massive spike in positive tests. I personally know six households who have it at the moment. Two individuals are in hospital and thankfully the rest have it mildly.

[quote EmpressSuiko]@CaptainMyCaptain I was hoping to do it on the weekend, now I’m going to be paranoid we might get into trouble but there’s literally nothing around us as we live very rurally and it’s just not safe to have the children cycling outside on the road as it connects to 60mph main road and obviously no one ever wants to slow down properly when they drive through the village 😰[/quote]
What you suggested earlier is FINE. The Govt has made it very clear that it's fine, one of them even joked about being allowed to eat a chocolate bar sitting on a bench.

Go & enjoy yourselves outside!!

(And I'm 'still washing my shopping' kind of careful)

badpuma, thank you. I've just looked it says 'should' limit to once a day. That's great because I love long walks!

I still think coffee shops should close. People are gathering around the town mooching. It is no different to pre lockdown. Meet friend. Get coffee. Go outside. Sit down. OK so costa have taken their tables away so people use the benches. And that is what people are doing. Its not exercise, its socialising but trying to distance while you do it.

I've read the link again. It does seem that both women were sat in the same car. Sitting in the car drinking coffee again isn't exercise. Oh well. Its all pretty shit. I do empathise, its boring. I miss have coffee with my friends. I dont have a mum to see, or a DF he's demented. But if I was one of the people strictly following the rules and not seeing my family I would be pissed off with these two women. The longer people intepret the rules always to favour what they want the longer we will be in this mess.

@Delatron

It’s shocking isn’t it?!

Can’t stop and sit on a bench during a walk, fined for walking with coffee or a flask of tea.

Yet when my abusive ex was trying to kick down my door and I called the police they were ‘too busy’.

Those aren't the rules though. You're allowed to do it, if the police try to fine people for it, people need to refuse the fine & let the CPS deal with it. If they can stop Laughing long enough.

well we're told to stay local in our own town or city and they wer together in a car so maybe thats it

Xenia, you do not agree with the furlough scheme? why?

I've read the link again. It does seem that both women were sat in the same car.

Derbyshire police have made no mention of this being the case, their justification was the distance they had travelled. I think it almost seems like people want to make up their own narrative and are desperate to believe the police are in the right as they don't want to face up to the alternative. That they too could be doing something perfectly within the law and be fined for it.

@Viviennemary

They shouldn't be travelling in the same car if they are from different households. It wasn't a necessary journey.

Again you haven't read or comprehended the actual facts.

They each drive their own cars.