Protect the NHS?

[LockdownSucksBalls]

Long time poster and I have name changed because I have know idea how this will go and don't wish to associate it with some of my other posts. This is also long 😂

I think everyone would agree that this pandemic has caused more division than anything I have ever seen in my lifetime. I have been reading posts and it seems that people either want the army patrolling the streets or they are concerned about their civil liberties being smashed to bits but fundamentally I don't think a single poster across this whole platform wants to see our health service collapse and more than that, we all feel for the actual people working in these frontline services (police, paramedics etc)

I also think most think the government are a complete shambles. I'm in Scotland so have Nicola Sturgeon who talks a good game but actually not very much different to Boris. I would say all 4 nations have succeeded in ONE thing and one thing only, dividing the people so much that everyone is worrying about other things.

So parents are worrying about school being open, teachers worrying they are safe, businesses worrying they have to close, redundancy, healthcare and supermarket workers on their knees. These are all really big worries for actual people.

Our NHS shouldn't be in this position. This is their fault. It needs a complete overhaul and the only way that can happen is people protest for it to be funded properly. Now I am not advocating a protest in the current climate but surely if every member of Mumsnet started contacting their MPs questioning this it would draw attention to it and not able to be ignored by the media?

What we are asking People to do at the moment is criminal, an open letter to the government today 1000 medics don't have the correct PPE again? Yet we expect people to go and work in these conditions? We expect parents to have limited access to education again? We expect business to close? We gave a fine of your out without a reasonable excuse?

Yet our MPs go to work everyday, driven around appearing on TV, daily briefings, passing draconian laws when actually all their focus should be on our NHS and how they fix the monumental fuck ups they made and how we bloody help these nurses and doctors cope. Asking us to stay in isn't relieving the pressure, the staff are on their knees whilst we are at home depressed trying to keep positive. The focus should firmly be on the government. Get your arse down to a hospital and throw money and resources NOW.

Whatever side you sit and I will be open and say I am deeply concerned about civil liberties but follow the rules surely Nurses should be the highest paid along with doctors as standard? This government should have every news outlet putting pressure on them to fix this instead of reporting on people being fined for not wearing a mask.

Yes I’ve thought this from day one and have said this on another thread. I’m so sick of hearing ‘protect the NHS’. How about funding the NHS properly in the first place so it CAN cope during a pandemic. We were warned years ago that a pandemic would happen again one day. So instead of spending billions on furlough and grants, spend it on the NHS - build more hospitals and pay staff properly. Too late for now but for next time.

The thing is, 90% of the NHS has no say in how it is run, so you blaming it for the current crisis is unfair. Blame the government and upper management that do make the choices

Well that's it. Why are we too late now? I feel the government are doing a great job of pushing the public to this narrative and I know we can't train doctors in a month but I bet give the front life staff the money they would do amazing things?

I meant to put in my OP that Mumsnet is a huge forum with many different views. I am of the opinions all the politics and failings aside as humans we want to help those facing this crisis and could come together collectively to put pressure on the government to do this instead of all the threads arguing this and that? Maybe I am naive but surely one thing we all agree is the people of this country have been shafted? Unless your an MP public money is horrendously mismanaged.

I was depressed to read this more that due to capacity issues they are contemplating sending elderly hospital patients back to care homes again. Apparently there is “spare capacity” in nursing homes. Because that went so well the first time. We’ve had all this time, couldn’t we have put these people, many of whom will be positive, in the Nightingales? Or some of other third place where they would remain segregated from the nursing home population?

@TheLovleyChebbyMcGee I am not blaming the NHS one single bit and if it comes across like that it is not my intention at all.

They should have a bloody say! Who knows how it works better than the people who work in it.

Less than two years ago a party with a track record of underfunding the NHS won a 80 seat majority. And I guarantee, at the next election, they’ll do exactly the same again.

Well you are right that the deliberate underfunding of our NHS over the last ten plus years is part of the reason our hospitals can’t cope now. It’s not about beds and facilities (although a lot of hospitals are woefully short of those), it’s crucially also about staffing. Low morale in the NHS has caused many nurses and Doctors to leave over the last few years. Even before the pandemic we were something like 40k nurses short! And our local hospital has to advertise over and over again to fill Consultant posts. They have voted with their feet.
So yes I sincerely hope that the public don’t just think a heart round of applause for NHS staff is all that is needed! I hope this has been an enormous wake up call to all those who have buried their heads in the sand whilst their NHS was being driven into the ground.
We need to decide as a nation if we want a first world, first class healthcare system. And if we do then we need to absolutely insist that our Government provides that by funding it properly.

I blame the government completely, how much was spent on a track and trace that is useless? Houch was spent buying ventilators from a company that had never made them before, so funnily enough didn't deliver them?!

Its just rich boys giving their pals easy jobs that they then don't deliver on.

@missyB1 so how can we help? I think your right we all just expect the health service to be there as and when we need it. I do not blame a single person for leaving given what they have been asked to endure.

It's clear the government don't give a fuck so how can the general public help? Obv follow the rules but I mean now and long term. Now how can we help increase your morale? Can we raise money? Send you in lunch and dinner? Anything at all because without you guys we are fucked.

Long term it needs to be unacceptable to lock people down because of government failing and our health service needs to funded properly with staff paid appropriately the actual staff not managers who run it into the ground?

I truly believe unless the public put pressure on the government now then when this is all over it will remain the same and staff will be dealing with their own mental health whilst trying to deal with ours with no resources.

Aren't we given the opportunity in a general election to vote for high taxes and high spending or low taxes and low spending. Unfortunately in the last election we chose low taxes and therefore this is what we get ie underfunded public services.

Yes there is waste in the NHS as there is in all Organisations but even sorting that out would cost in the short term and it wouldn't save as much as you think.

Also it is often the people delivering services who refuse to change making efforts to run more efficiently a waste of time. For example before the pandemic there was a lot of resistance to moving to remote consultations and we were told it couldn't work. It doesn't work well for everyone but for most it's been a great time and therefore money saver enabling people to be seen more quickly despite the purpose being to reduce transmission. We would never have achieved this change without a pandemic though.

I work in NHS finance and before the pandemic the amount of time spent in trying to meet targets to reduce funding is unbelievable- there is not much more to cut.

If we want a better funded NHS then we need to vote for it when we have the chance.

Also there is no way that the NHS could currently cope with a major organisational change at the moment. Even if money was thrown at it today ( and it some areas this is happening) there are not the trained staff available to take on the work.
I'm sure this will be looked at when the pandemic has stabilised.

@BlueBaubles12 has put it much more succinctly than I did. 😳

How did you vote in the last 2 general elections, OP?

Mumski 45 is right. Voting differently is how we ultimately fix this. The Conservative Government have always made it clear that they will spend the minimum on public services, they see those services as a nuisance and a drain on society!
But I’ve long since given up on the public waking up to this, people are so very very easily fooled. Boris and his bus anyone?? It’s not just in the UK either, look at the Trump supporters.
We could all out lots of pressure on our MPs but Tory MPs toe the party line. I have emailed my MP many times when there has been important votes in the commons- total waste of time!

@Mumski45 I totally agree people are resistant to any kind of change. I feel like saying oh the people will vote for it is just accepting the narrative. Some might but some like myself really want to hear how we can help affect the change.

I don't mean an overhaul during the pandemic that would be madness but I fear without pressure the government will just say look we saved the NHS nothing to see here.

I think lockdown is utter bullshit it's blown my business apart but even I care about the actual humans being forced to work in really shitty conditions. I really want to hear from people who work in the service what could be done to make it better for them and the patients. Not cutting funding but using it effectively?

Tonight that shower of shite government are going to go out and clap and it really pisses me off. I don't vote Tory btw. Interested to hear from any Scottish healthcare professionals as well. Not sure how bad things are up here just now.

@TitsOot4Xmas not that it's any of your business and I don't want this to turn into a fight. I am genuinely interested as to how the public can help but I voted SNP safe to say I am paying for that vote every day at the minute

Thing is people don't just vote for one concern, and most people I personally know vote for the least worse option dependent on the constituency they live in.

[quote LockdownSucksBalls]@TitsOot4Xmas not that it's any of your business and I don't want this to turn into a fight. I am genuinely interested as to how the public can help but I voted SNP safe to say I am paying for that vote every day at the minute [/quote]
I’d argue you’d be paying more if the Westminster government had control of your NHS.

(I’m in Wales)

Right now, the best way we can help front line staff is by NOT catching covid. By not having a car crash or falling down steps drunk.

The one thing nurses and doctors need right now is fewer admissions so yes, stay home, don't meet up with family or friends if you can help it. Any contact is an opportunity for transmission. Any reduction in contact is therefore a good thing.

There will be plenty of time for reviews afterwards but right now, every NHS worker I know is saying the same thing. Stick to the rules, isolate, go the extra mile.

@RedMarauder well I think that's probably what I'm getting at. Take it away from who you vote for and make it a public issue. Make the government understand that it just isn't an option to underfund our NHS.

I admit I'm not sure if it could be removed from manifestos completely but surely the people of this country decide what we want? That's is a simplistic way of looking at it I know but if everyone starts screaming from the rooftops just how shite it is for everyone right now then they have to do something? They want the votes after all?

@Mintjulia absolutely and I am doing that of course. Fucking hate it and I am angry that we are in this position again but I will do it because it's the right thing to do but what I am getting at is surely this has to be the catalyst for change? Why are we watching videos of medics and nurses near tears while MPs bang on about protecting them?

As I said I stick to the rules hence me being home in the middle of the day thinking a middle aged mother could possibly affect some change but I do think instead of everyone bitching at each other about following the rules this time could be used for the general public to make their voice heard and tell all governments this isn't acceptable.

@LockdownSucksBalls if the NHS falls over in the next few weeks and there is sufficient video/pictures in the media then it will be remembered by people. The government is putting people back in care homes because they do not want similar pictures to Italy.

Trump was got rid of because he couldn't deal with the pandemic. Yes, it was a narrow margin but his handling of it got people out votin.

Such a good post. I literally can't believe that the government have a succeeded in turning the general public against each other...you're not wearing a mask, you're not social distancing,you're not following the rules...it's your fault the NHS is overwhelmed. Even my mum,who worked for them for years says everyone just needs to behave.

Literally the while reason we are in this mess is because of our government. Yes,there's a pandemic. Our health service can't cope. Why can't they cope? Because they have cut cut cut for years and years,driven good staff members away and failed to fulfil their promises. The only people to blame for the shit position we are in,is the government.

Unfortunately,many people on social media or of a certain age seem unable to dig a bit deeper and consider why the NHS can't cope. They just seem to take the word that it's because of all the rule breakers. Despite most polls showing the large majority of people are following the rules. I don't know when so many all became incapable of thinking a bit deeper but I honestly think,next election, we'll just be in the same position. Let's face it,if the general public all cared so much for the NHS,why the hell did so many vote for a party who have underfunded them again and again and again.

And don't even get me started on Jeremy Hunt now being cited as the voice of reason! I'm sorry,have we all got collective memory loss and forgotten how reviled he was when he was health secretary - junior doctor strike anyone?! This goes to show how quickly the great British public forget.

Our NHS shouldn't be in this position. This is their fault. It needs a complete overhaul and the only way that can happen is people protest for it to be funded properly.

Ok, so I agree that the NHS is not funded properly or sufficiently, and this needs to change however a properly funded NHS would be unable to have coped with this crisis. In a 'normal' bad flu year we need roughly 110-120% of the acute beds we have, we currently need 160% of ALL beds e.g, 60 more beds for every 100 beds we have. No amount of appropriate funding would allow hospitals to carry 60% more beds than it usually needs at anyone time on the off chance of another pandemic.

You just have to look at how they tossed aside the student nurses after the summer to know how much this government HATES Health Care Professionals. But again, brushed under the carpet and forgotten

However I do not feel that my statement above should be used to PREVENT appropriate funding of the NHS, just that the argument that a properly funded NHS would have been able to cope is wrong - it wouldn't.