Protect the NHS?

[LockdownSucksBalls]

Long time poster and I have name changed because I have know idea how this will go and don't wish to associate it with some of my other posts. This is also long 😂

I think everyone would agree that this pandemic has caused more division than anything I have ever seen in my lifetime. I have been reading posts and it seems that people either want the army patrolling the streets or they are concerned about their civil liberties being smashed to bits but fundamentally I don't think a single poster across this whole platform wants to see our health service collapse and more than that, we all feel for the actual people working in these frontline services (police, paramedics etc)

I also think most think the government are a complete shambles. I'm in Scotland so have Nicola Sturgeon who talks a good game but actually not very much different to Boris. I would say all 4 nations have succeeded in ONE thing and one thing only, dividing the people so much that everyone is worrying about other things.

So parents are worrying about school being open, teachers worrying they are safe, businesses worrying they have to close, redundancy, healthcare and supermarket workers on their knees. These are all really big worries for actual people.

Our NHS shouldn't be in this position. This is their fault. It needs a complete overhaul and the only way that can happen is people protest for it to be funded properly. Now I am not advocating a protest in the current climate but surely if every member of Mumsnet started contacting their MPs questioning this it would draw attention to it and not able to be ignored by the media?

What we are asking People to do at the moment is criminal, an open letter to the government today 1000 medics don't have the correct PPE again? Yet we expect people to go and work in these conditions? We expect parents to have limited access to education again? We expect business to close? We gave a fine of your out without a reasonable excuse?

Yet our MPs go to work everyday, driven around appearing on TV, daily briefings, passing draconian laws when actually all their focus should be on our NHS and how they fix the monumental fuck ups they made and how we bloody help these nurses and doctors cope. Asking us to stay in isn't relieving the pressure, the staff are on their knees whilst we are at home depressed trying to keep positive. The focus should firmly be on the government. Get your arse down to a hospital and throw money and resources NOW.

Whatever side you sit and I will be open and say I am deeply concerned about civil liberties but follow the rules surely Nurses should be the highest paid along with doctors as standard? This government should have every news outlet putting pressure on them to fix this instead of reporting on people being fined for not wearing a mask.

@RedMarauder I agree with you that would change the narrative for sure but I am so uncomfortable with that. Imagine the damage that would do to people 😢 headlines aside that is real human beings and I am not ok with that.

That's why I feel we need to be shouting about it NOW. Get these fuckers accountable

@Almostslimjim I absolutely take your word on that 100% you know better than me. In terms of the capacity I totally understand an increase for a one off wouldn't be appropriate but I think the crisis now is highlighting that 1. Nurses are not paid enough and 2. There isn't enough of them this is absolutely the fault of the government.

@Layladylay234 absolutely the student nurses is so relevant because to fix this it needs to be built from the ground up. Nursing needs to be seen as a viable profession which pays for the job they do

The government is putting people back in care homes because they do not want similar pictures to Italy.

Indeed. I wish my trust would open it's doors to reporters and cameras, but alas, it will not.

I think the crisis now is highlighting that 1. Nurses are not paid enough and 2. There isn't enough of them this is absolutely the fault of the government.

Absolutely! Nurses are the backbone of the NHS and need to be invested in - for training and retaining.

@Almostslimjim

The government is putting people back in care homes because they do not want similar pictures to Italy.

Indeed. I wish my trust would open it's doors to reporters and cameras, but alas, it will not.

Do you know there's someone on twitter who you can contact anonymously to share what's happening at your trust?

@Almostslimjim what do you think needs to happen? Sorry tell me to piss off if you wish but I am going to write to all my MPs in regards to this and prefer to listen to experts if possible.

Is it the bursary? I'm sure scotland still does that but the pay scale after the fact is not good.

And yes @Layladylay234 the success of turning the public against each other is mind blowing. Totally distraction from their failings

I’m not sure why you think everyone os going to start giving a shit about the NHS now when it’s been underfunded and mismanaged for years, and nurses have gone from respected professionals to the shit on the shoe of the general public. When the first signs had to be put up on notice boards in wards to say abuse of staff would not be tolerated ( many, many years ago) the rot was setting in and it’s just got worse and worse.
I can’t muster any enthusiasm for all the new virtue signalling NHS supporters.

There is no way that the NHS could currently cope with a major organisational change at the moment ... I'm sure this will be looked at when the pandemic has stabilised

Ah yes, here we go

FWIW I completely accept that much needed reform would be difficult to implement right now, but let's not kid ourselves that there'll be any real appetite for doing it even when Covid's just a ghastly memory

Though doubtless we'll be told that lessons will be learned and millions will be misused by endless committes formed to consider what might be done

I agree that we need a properly funded NHS
The problem is that a properly funded NHS is antithetical to Tory ideology

I get what both of you are saying but surely right now is the time to get people involved. Lockdown is affecting everyone in different ways but I think the very small minority see it as a positive. Everyone I know is fucking angry at this shitshow but they blame the system for missed appointments or delayed treatment I don't think I have heard anyone say they blame the actual people?

Sure some won't care but people like that are always going to be dicks so best leave them to do their own thing. Surely most decent humans are at this point fucked off at being told to stay home to protect the NHS when actually all we are hearing is how exhausted the actual staff are? This should not be happening. We are protecting nothing other than the government having bodies lying all over the place

As i said to sil other day this save the nhs bullshit fucks me right off.

Gov has spent years decimating nhs through greed and incompetence instead of spending money on training staff properly and paying them properly.
Then they have the neck to ask us to save it while they gave millions to their mates!! Fuck. off.

@Almostslimjim

The government is putting people back in care homes because they do not want similar pictures to Italy.

Indeed. I wish my trust would open it's doors to reporters and cameras, but alas, it will not.

One of my local trusts has done so as it is the regional centre for certain emergencies and lots of specific diseases. (I'm in London.) If they get overwhelmed in the next two weeks and you have a head injury or stroke then while the nearest A&E may just have enough beds to treat you it won't be able to be transferred to have the specialist treatment you need.

Bodies lying all over the place
Yes mass visible public death is the ultimate nightmare scenario that the government will do all they can to avoid
Because there will be no coming back from that, the country will be lost and all their rich friends will have to find other hosts to suck blood from

Is it the bursary? I'm sure scotland still does that but the pay scale after the fact is not good.

There's lots of reasons, I think the bursary being scrapped caused fewer people to apply to train, but retention of staff is dreadful, largely in part due to the working conditions (I'm talking non-covid times). Too few qualified staff on shift at once, not due to staff shortages or us having vacancies, but because it is rota'd like that. The underfunding of the departments means we farm out tasks which were nursing tasks previously to lower paid HCAs and the nurses only do higher level work. And whilst I appreciate that this sounds cost effective, it actually means less care for people as HCAs have considerably less training and nurses are carrying more risk and spreading themselves more thinly (not their fault) they don't have the necessary oversight of patients. Stress levels in nursing are very high, and people don't want to stay. This isn't a problem limited to my trust, but nationwide from what I have heard from nurses.

@TheLovleyChebbyMcGee

The thing is, 90% of the NHS has no say in how it is run, so you blaming it for the current crisis is unfair. Blame the government and upper management that do make the choices

She is!!!!!! The whole post is saying the government should be throwing money at nhs now and looking at doing it more in future.

Funny how they could throw 22million at a mate to procure PPE that never turned up.

Millions at serco mates for a track and trace system that doesn't work.

But they can't pay nurses more, provide the right PPE or get on top of cases.

They make a pile of shit look like a glitter ball.

*As i said to sil other day this save the nhs bullshit fucks me right off.
*

The thing is, it is true. Lockdown is the equivalent of giving the NHS CPR, when the NHS is a 90yo with underlying health conditions and COVID.

PPE and ventilator that never turned up and the companies kept the money? Really? Wow!

They throw millions at their mates because their mates are people like them with whom they identify.
Nurses are just plebs to them, so far removed from their lives that they are unable to empathize or see them as real people

yes, but only if we also look at the same time at what the NHS does, how it does it and what we want it to do.

I don't support throwing more money at the NHS unless the whole thing is reformed at the same time.

@blueangel19

PPE and ventilator that never turned up and the companies kept the money? Really? Wow!

No, not really.......

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54323566

Tories ethos work ps on market forces. They let markets drive their decisions.

So things like funding nhs, education and blue light services just doesn't compute to them because they cost money - they aren't a market.

They don't see that saving someone's life may be a future person who may make the company taxes or educating the masses creates taxes via a future workforce.

They are use to people who can pay for education (a market) and know plenty of contacts through this type of lifestyle and so they don't feel the need and in some ways don't need to look further.

Well now we have left the EU perhaps they can use the £13.2billion per yr membership fee for the nhs instead

Well now we have left the EU perhaps they can use the £13.2billion per yr membership fee for the nhs instead

Wonderful! Less people moving here too 😂😂😂

... the government should be throwing money at nhs now and looking at doing it more in future.
Funny how they could throw 22million at a mate to procure PPE that never turned up ... millions at Serco mates for a track and trace system that doesn't work

I get the rationale, but those millions mis-spent on PPE, Serco and the rest aren't somehow separate to the issue of NHS funding; they're the very reason why it makes little difference within the service as currently organised

Mismanagement and cronyism isn't exclusive to the government but exists wherever accountability's lacking (and sometimes even when it's not) and that applies to the NHS as much as anything else

Granted nothing can happen immediately, but sooner or later we'll need to grasp this nettle and start again with a better system, whatever that looks like - though even then there'll be the challenge of keeping the same noses from the trough and the same discredited mentalities at bay

Just reading through all the different opinions and what I see is apart from one post at the beginning (who I think misread) everyone is mostly agreeing and it's fairly balanced debate from both sides. Going on some recognition from posters on other threads there are all sides of lockdown here

This is what I wanted, a place to discuss and chat without it descending into nonsense about the rules.

I take everyone's points and it's interesting especially the CPR analogy. Surely though a way needs to be found to support staff now and a campaign for a major reform once this is over? Yes the tories don't believe in it but they will if that's the way the public opinion goes?