Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

New English COVID legislation published

133 replies

Horizons83 · 05/01/2021 18:43

The new English legislation has just been published, so I thought it would be useful to summarise what the law actually says, rather than the guidance.

Please do not take this as an endorsement to disregard the guidance… but I do think it’s important that people understand when they are breaking the law and when they are merely not following guidance.

I’ve seen posts (not necessarily on MN) from people who refused to bubble up with a lonely relative over Christmas because they lived in a different tier from them, people who decided they could not go to the supermarket they could see from their window because the county boundary was in between – all of which were legally permissible under the Tier system.

The legislation is here:

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/8/contents/made

Basically, it tweaks the Tier 4 legislation and states that all of England is now Tier 4.

This is not a definitive list of the rules, but ones that I’ve been able to highlight from a quick review. It is for the general public only – employers obviously may have their own rules, or certain sectors will have other legislation they must adhere to.

Support bubbles

Support bubbles still exist in the same way as before.

Should you be in a support bubble this means that you are in effect treated as one household, living under one roof. You can therefore do anything you would do as one household. You do not need to stay in your local area to travel between each other’s houses – you could be opposite ends of England and still be able to travel to each other. You can stay overnight in each other’s houses.

Exercise

There is NO legal requirement to only exercise once per day. There is NO legal requirement to limit this to one hour.

There is NO legal requirement to only exercise within walking distance of your home. There is NO legal reason why you cannot drive across county lines to do that exercise.

You are only allowed to meet up with one other individual from outside your household or support bubble, and the reason must be for exercise in an outdoor space. However, children under the age of 5 DO NOT COUNT – so a parent and toddler can still meet up with one other parent and toddler to exercise.

Other reasons to leave home

The following are all permissible reasons to leave home . In every case there is NO legal requirement to only do those things if they are within your village/town/county. If your hospital appointment is in London and you live in Birmingham, that is absolutely fine to attend. If your local supermarket is in the next county, you can use it.

Work – where the work cannot be done from home. The work itself does not need to be deemed ‘essential’.

Voluntary services – these are still allowed, where they cannot be done from home.

Shopping for food and other goods – this is also permitted if you are doing it on behalf of a vulnerable person, or someone who is self isolating. There is no restriction on what goods you buy, they do not have to be deemed essential goods. Rather, if the shop selling the goods is legally allowed to be open, you can purchase from it.

Care of a vulnerable person – for example, elderly relatives who you cannot form a bubble with. It is perfectly legal to stay overnight with them.

Taking a child to their other parent’s house.

Attending to animal welfare.

Attending medical appointments and visiting family or close friends in hospital.

Attending other legally required appointments such as passport and visa services.

Social distancing

The requirement to keep 2 metres away from others not in your household or support bubble is NOT in the law, and as far as I am aware never has been. Of course, it’s very sensible to follow this guidance, but no-one is going to be arrested if they get too close to another person.

I hope that is helpful.

OP posts:
MaggieFS · 05/01/2021 23:26

On outdoor exercise vs recreation... I haven't read the legal stuff, just the website last night and it said outdoor public places you could visit included playgrounds. This feels a bit contradictory?

beachdays123 · 05/01/2021 23:30

Agreed, the GUIDANCE states exercise and didn’t mention recreation, however the LAW seems to still contain recreation. Notwithstanding what might be considered right or wrong by some people, I want to be clear on what police would or wouldn’t have the power to fine me for, this difference between law and guidance is confusing

LangClegsInSpace · 05/01/2021 23:41

@Chelsea567

I'll probably get flamed, but surely the whole idea of a lockdown is to stop transmission and save lives etc, not for individuals to try to look for loopholes so they can bend the rules for their own personal circumstances? Unless you absolutely have to leave your house- don't. So many people saying that the rules can be interpreted so I can still do this, or that, and it doesn't apply to me. Grrr no wonder we're in the state we're in. Confused
Yes, the aim is to save lives and everyone should stay at home as much as possible.

Nobody on this thread seems to be looking for loopholes so they can bend the rules, they just want to know what the rules actually are. The government guidance doesn't cover every individual situation and many of the situations that are not covered are very distressing and potentially life threatening so it's important that people in those situations know where they stand legally. They can't rely on government guidance because there isn't any for their specific situation.

Also it's very important that the police do not make up the law. If we allow them to do that then we no longer have the law, we have a police state. The law is changing on a weekly, sometimes daily, basis at the moment. Everybody has the right to know what they are legally allowed to do today, or this week. Nobody should be left at the mercy of what badly worded government guidance says or what their local bobby reckons.

poshme · 06/01/2021 00:20

@RedskyAtnight actually some things are now allowed that weren't before.

In the tiers, a person in tier 4 could not travel into tier 3 to meet someone for a walk- even if the travel was a matter of metres. Now, with everyone in the same lockdown (in England) those 2 people can meet for a walk.

Travelling from tier 3 into tier 4 to do shopping was not allowed. (There were limited reasons you could travel into tier 4). Now, you can travel between the same two places as they're all under the same rules.

I live near a recent tier border...

LangClegsInSpace · 06/01/2021 00:46

@beachdays123

Agreed, the GUIDANCE states exercise and didn’t mention recreation, however the LAW seems to still contain recreation. Notwithstanding what might be considered right or wrong by some people, I want to be clear on what police would or wouldn’t have the power to fine me for, this difference between law and guidance is confusing
No, it's now illegal to leave your home for the purpose of recreation or to meet another person in a public place for the purpose of recreation. ------- 3.—(1) The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020 are amended as follows ...

(3) Schedule 3A is amended in accordance with paragraphs (4) to (12).
(4) In paragraph 2—
(a) in sub-paragraph (2), omit paragraphs (d) and (da);
-------

Paragraph (d) of sub-paragraph (2) in paragraph 2 of Schedule 3A of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020 says that in tier 4 you can visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation either alone, with your household, while providing informal childcare (bubble rules apply) or on your own with one other person.

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/schedule/3A/paragraph/2

The new regs say that paragraph (d) is to be omitted so you can't do that any more.

The omission of paragraph (da) means you also can't go the zoo. Apparently that needed a separate paragraph.

Obviously it would be unreasonable to expect the general public to trawl through and cross-reference this spaghetti-legislation. For most situations, government guidance is useful and accurately reflects the law, but not always.

LangClegsInSpace · 06/01/2021 00:54

[quote MercyBooth]www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/05/police-chief-calls-for-power-of-entry-into-homes-of-suspected-lockdown-breakers[/quote]
David Jamieson, the police and crime commissioner for the West Midlands police, can fuck right off.

Everleigh2021 · 06/01/2021 01:03

So people have to stay at home, only go out if it’s essential but the shops that are open can sell you anything they have it doesn’t have to be essential??

Essentially, rubbish!!! Poor shop staff have to put up with the public whose only option to get out is a walk in a cold wet park.... or a trip in a nice warm dry store for a browse!

Ifailed · 06/01/2021 06:51

Thanks for this OP. I found myself in 'discussion' with a PO during the first lockdown who told me I was only allowed out once per day to exercise and for a limited time. I politely told him that was guidance not the law and if he wished to issue me with a penalty notice I would not be paying it and was fully confident that the CPS would not proceed in court.
We both went on our ways.

Honeydukesmum · 06/01/2021 07:29

@Horizons83 the ‘guidance’ hasn’t changed to reflect under 5’s not counting. Do you think it will be?

Horizons83 · 06/01/2021 08:37

@poshme. You could do all of those things before. This new legislation simply makes minor tweaks to the Tier 4 rules. There was never any law that you couldn’t move into a different tier, it was just in the guidance.

Hence my desire to make this post!

OP posts:
Horizons83 · 06/01/2021 08:38

@Honeydukesmum. The under 5 exemption had been there for many weeks already under the tier system, so I’m surprised it’s not there already?

OP posts:
Horizons83 · 06/01/2021 08:43

The legislation is very tricky to read right now as the original Tier legislation still shows the previous version without the Changes.

In a few days they should publish an updated version of the tier rules which incorporates the changes made by yesterday’s legislation: then items such as the outdoor recreation will disappear.

OP posts:
chomalungma · 06/01/2021 08:47

Will this all be printed in vellum as well?

www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35569281

HecouldLickEm · 06/01/2021 08:50

Can I legally drive 5 miles (about 2 as crow flies) crossing a natural border to get to a local nt property where I can take family and walk in peace?

If police stop me, and say I can't leave my town what do I say?

Farahilda · 06/01/2021 08:51

Only one person per household can meet up, but that legislation excludes the child and their carer. So my baby is excluded, I am excluded as her carer, leaving my husband and dad as the two people meeting up.

This isn't right. The infant is disregarded. You are not. So one person can meet one ther person even if they have their DC with them. They cannot meet an infinite number of people because they all don't count because of the presence of the DC.

So the Dad would be meeting 2 people (not 3 as the DC is disregarded) and of those 2 neither is career to the other, so they do each count. It's an over-size gathering.

Farahilda · 06/01/2021 08:53

If police stop me, and say I can't leave my town what do I say?

'I'm sorry officer'
Seriously, even when you think they are wrong, don't try to argue on the spot. Take their number and follow up by email.

HecouldLickEm · 06/01/2021 08:55

Farahilda, I don't want to speak and share aerosols with anyone but they have been telling people they will start fining soon.

So following up with an email won't save me from the next day.
Surely it's better to close down the argument there and then?

Grandtheft · 06/01/2021 09:06

Surely it's better to close down the argument there and then?

I'm not sure that's how it works with the police tbh

Farahilda · 06/01/2021 09:15

@HecouldLickEm

Farahilda, I don't want to speak and share aerosols with anyone but they have been telling people they will start fining soon.

So following up with an email won't save me from the next day.
Surely it's better to close down the argument there and then?

Good luck with that

If you try to argue in the spot, you risk being arrested for obstructing police carrying out their duties. The officer on the spot has been told what to do. You think the instruction is wrong (and it's entirely possible it is wrong). You can either believe me or not that there is no way to convince a police officer on the spot that their instructions are wrong and you are right

What you can do is get those instructions changed (and an apology). Which is why making a fuss, in writing, to those who are making the operational instructions is IME the way to go. Even if it takes a little while go set things set straight.

I'll leave it to others to post if they have ever found a different way to sort an issue like this one.

Lurkingforawhile · 06/01/2021 10:05

Suggest local councillors are a good way to complain as well if the police are trying to enforce guidance rather than law. We've had a possible example of this yesterday in the next town over, and they are trying to get to the bottom of it including whether someone was impersonating a police officer. It seems strange they would try and enforce it yesterday even before the regs were published so my money is on it not being the police.

Splodgetastic · 06/01/2021 10:07

@Horizons83 Do you know where the DM has got the idea that police and PCSOs can fine people for not wearing a mask outside? (www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9117399/Lockdown-LAW-Boris-Johnson-set-face-MPs-ahead-vote.html#article-9117399) I assume that they may have misinterpreted provisions on police etc. giving a direction to someone and that person ignoring it.

ILookAtTheFloor · 06/01/2021 10:10

Is it legal for me to take a parcel with my dad's birthday present in it to a courier depot?

I'm going to do it anyway, just wondering if I'm breaking the law doing so.

Lurkingforawhile · 06/01/2021 10:11

And I would agree about having not having an argument with a police officer, but from my experience in previous lockdowns I doubt many of us will encounter one. I think I might go as far as saying I am complying with the legislation because I always would be, but that would be it, and I wouldn't engage any further.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 06/01/2021 10:12

I’ve noticed that everywhere seems to be reporting that we should only leave home once a day for exercise in our local area. It still says this on the government website

Swipe left for the next trending thread