To expect to be able to choose not to have the vaccine without being made to feel uncomfortable? *edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[Drogonssmile]

Risking a flaming here:

I work in the NHS not patient facing. Our Trust has said all non frontline staff are likely to be offered the vaccine next week. (1000 staff have already been done which is brilliant!)

I'm a fit and healthy 39 year old with no underlying health conditions. I am not an anti vaxxer however I am concerned about the lack of long term research that has understandably not been able to be done on the vaccine and have made an informed decision that I probably won't have it. I'd prefer my dose to go to someone more vulnerable. I believe this should be my choice.
My colleague is 62 and is all for having the vaccine which is great. I said I probably wouldn't as it doesn't affect transmission only the severity of the illness. Now she isn't speaking to me.
AIBU?

(Also given the amount of setbacks and govt lies/omissions in the last 10 months I wouldn't be at all surprised if the vaccine isn't the silver bullet we've been told to expect. The way things are going I can see is in the same situation in 12 months time).

I hope you have learnt your lesson OP. Keep your business to yourself on this matter because the other side is closed minded.
There are loads of people like you but they can’t be bothered with the aggro so we just nod along.
Tell your manager and tell them that your private data needs to be kept private!
Personally, I have no probs with telling people I wouldn’t have covid jab but then I’m a strong personality, not easily intimidated. However I still keep quite and nod along sometimes as I can’t be bothered with the hysteria 🙄

@Spidey66 Whoops, damned predictive text. I meant to say 'some'. No pets don't need to be vaccinated against Covid, thankfully.

@PerveenMistry

I work at a major research institution with a 65 year old lifelong immunologist who trained under Dr Fauci. Upon reviewing all materials/scientific papers he said - this is as good as a vaccine gets

What's with this deification of some individuals and taking their utterances as gospel, as if there weren't enough scientists around the world who may have very different (and valid) opinions?

@U8myufo

Whether to have the vaccine or not is a personal decision for each and every person. You shouldn't be discriminated against if you don't choose to have it, otherwise where do we draw the line? Should people who make other health related choices be discriminated against. If someone chooses to smoke and therefore not protect themselves from lung disease for example, should they be discriminated against on the basis that they aren't protecting their health? No of course not. It is private individual choices (remember that thing called choice?) And private medical information regardless of the profession of the person. It should remain private.

That's all very nice, inclusive and cuddly.

But bears no resemblance to the state of things in reality.

Smokers and the obese have been refused medical ntervention for years.

NHS staff and otheres have been required to have a wde range of vaccines, task dependent, for decades

Private medical information? What private information? If you mean vaccination records, for some they are all part and parcel of the job! Or travellers going to various countries. etc etc etc etc

Tell your manager and tell them that your private data needs to be kept private! I think OP needs to tell herself that - as she is the one who made her private data public!

@U8myufo

Whether to have the vaccine or not is a personal decision for each and every person. You shouldn't be discriminated against if you don't choose to have it, otherwise where do we draw the line? Should people who make other health related choices be discriminated against. If someone chooses to smoke and therefore not protect themselves from lung disease for example, should they be discriminated against on the basis that they aren't protecting their health? No of course not. It is private individual choices (remember that thing called choice?) And private medical information regardless of the profession of the person. It should remain private.

If a worker is risking their colleagues health and safety and not even just their own they can certainly be treated differently to other colleagues. Not wishing to have a vaccine is not a protected characteristic. You are deluded if you think medical information can be kept private from employers too. They can not employ you if you don't give them access to it.

@U8myufo

Whether to have the vaccine or not is a personal decision for each and every person. You shouldn't be discriminated against if you don't choose to have it, otherwise where do we draw the line? Should people who make other health related choices be discriminated against. If someone chooses to smoke and therefore not protect themselves from lung disease for example, should they be discriminated against on the basis that they aren't protecting their health? No of course not. It is private individual choices (remember that thing called choice?) And private medical information regardless of the profession of the person. It should remain private.

But that’s about protecting yourself. Having the vaccine is arguably about protecting other people as well as yourself.

You can’t force people to have the vaccine, but employers also have a requirement to make workplaces safe.

So if they have an unvaccinated person in there, putting others at additional risk. How is it managed? Some will of course force them out. Others may have to compromise and make all employees wear ppe.

I can see some interesting legal challenges coming up. Not just in the workplace, but in many many areas, from travel to even attending social venues, where the unvaccinated amongst us may find themselves unacceptable due to thr increased risk they pose to others.

I think you’re incredibly lucky to have been offered it and I strongly disagree with your rationale for declining which sounds uninformed.

I’m shocked and quite appalled that non frontline NHS staff are being prioritised over higher risk groups just because they’re NHS though. That isn’t ok.

What about those who cannot have the vaccine i.e. those with severe allergies? Should they resign from their jobs too because they are putting colleagues at risk? Are people going to label them all the names under the sun?
Why are we so woefully unable to see anything but black and white or good and bad anymore? It's just another polarization of right and wrong yet again.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

You are removing the agency of the co worker *@trulydelicious*

If she continues to ignore OP then yes, there could be an allegation of bullying. But at the moment, for all we know, the woman is just gobsmacked at OPS stance!

One person does not make a mob!

Bullying and socrimination are entirely different things.

As is keeping a healthy distance, removing yourself from potential areas of conflict!

Without wanting to turn into CuriousaboutSamphire fan club, I agree with this too. OP, yout colleague could be me, and you my coworker who's refused the flu jab and now the covid jab ''because I heard someone I know felt a bit ill after it.'' I'm fuming with her. Yes I'll continue to be polite and talk to her about work related issues but tbh I'm so angry with her I'm keeping my distance because I don't want to get into a row at work. All year she's been going on about the risk of covid, continually disinfecting every thing she touches, moaning about lockdown, etc, but won't do the best thing she can to stop this situation dragging on. Of course I'm angry with her. I can get a bit mouthy and shouty when I'm angry and I'm trying to avoid this in the workplace.

@IceIceBebe

OP, ignore these horrible comments. I won’t be getting it for my own reasons and I don’t expect to be getting judgemental comments

You'll be getting them. Maybe not to your face....

For those who say that the OP is not being discriminated, being ignored on purpose is a form of bullying

No it isn't. If I think my colleague is being a massive tit and putting us all at risk, I don't have to talk to her. That's not bullying.

Exactly.

@Emeeno1

What about those who cannot have the vaccine i.e. those with severe allergies? Should they resign from their jobs too because they are putting colleagues at risk? Are people going to label them all the names under the sun? Why are we so woefully unable to see anything but black and white or good and bad anymore? It's just another polarization of right and wrong yet again.

I think everyone agrees that this does not apply to those with medical reasons for not getting the jab. You're just being difficult here.

@Emeeno1

What about those who cannot have the vaccine i.e. those with severe allergies? Should they resign from their jobs too because they are putting colleagues at risk? Are people going to label them all the names under the sun? Why are we so woefully unable to see anything but black and white or good and bad anymore? It's just another polarization of right and wrong yet again.

Please, don't stretch so far, you'll fall over!

[quote trulydelicious]@PerveenMistry

I work at a major research institution with a 65 year old lifelong immunologist who trained under Dr Fauci. Upon reviewing all materials/scientific papers he said - this is as good as a vaccine gets

What's with this deification of some individuals and taking their utterances as gospel, as if there weren't enough scientists around the world who may have very different (and valid) opinions?[/quote]

Finding actual scientists who have a decades-long body of peer-reviewed, rigorously tested work credible is not "deification."

If you know of any qualified, experienced and vetted research immunology and public health experts who advise against taking the Covid vaccine, please cite them asap.

[quote Mittens030869]@Spidey66 Whoops, damned predictive text. I meant to say 'some'. No pets don't need to be vaccinated against Covid, thankfully. [/quote]
Lol. Maggie is now breathing a sigh of relief.

Lol. Maggie is now breathing a sigh of relief.

And my three cats too!

@TillysMum02 No worries, sorry if I was abit very bitchy.

It's a hard time for everyone, we're all under a lot of stress, I hope lots of people do have the vaccine, I really do but it's still a personal, private decision like any medical procedure.

I wouldn't have an issue countries stating it was a requirement of travel, I'll have it in a few years if so, just want to see how it is over a longer timeframe and a bigger sample size. We've taken it very seriously and been more careful than anyone we know, haven't even had a cold so I'd be very unlucky to catch covid, we're not against vaccinations or covid deniers, we just want to wait and see what happens.

@Belladonna12

Not wishing to have a vaccine is not a protected characteristic

Maybe it should be made to be, if people continue to want to discriminate others and wish apocalypse on those who just want to have a say on which medical treatment to have

You are deluded if you think medical information can be kept private from employers too

Of course it can be kept private from most employers, are they going to spy on you?

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@TheOrigRights

I am dubious about the OP's claim that BAME people have been vaccinated 1) because of the issue I mentioned - identifying such people and 2) is it actually clear that BAME people are more at risk? Where is the evidence for that?

My apologies, I should have been much more clear in my incredulity!

Yes. There has been evidence regarding ethnicity and infection rates and severity since April last year. It has been headline news for months.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30228-9/fulltext

www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/behind-the-headlines/coronavirus/coronavirus-and-ethnic-minorities

There's been a sub committee looking into it for months

committees.parliament.uk/publications/3965/documents/39887/default/[/quote]
...and I should have been more clear as to what I meant as well.

It has not been shown that (with all other factors being equal) BAME people are more vulnerable to catching and dying of covid.
There are many contributing factors (e.g. health inequality, comorbidities).

The governments priority order mainly goes on age (which cannot be subjective) as well as those on the frontline and the CEV.

From the OP it looks like her NHS dept is not following the governments priority list. Is that how it works?

YABVU OP.

yanbu to OP. It's your body.

Herd immunity. If you can have the vaccine and choose not to, you are part of the problem.

Of course you have the right not to be vaccinated, but in order to halt this pandemic and get back to some degree of normality we need to vaccinate as high a percentage of the population as possible.

COVID is not going away but vaccination at least gives us a fighting chance of being able to live with it.

Do the "its your body do as you want" understand that they only get to choose not to have it because everyone else is choosing to get it?

If we were all like the OP and the "my body my choice" (we'll ignore for now the offensiveness of hijacking that slogan for this purpose ) then we would all be in permanent lockdown until every old and vunerable and so on person was dead of coronavirus?

Don't you understand what has been happening for the last year and what will continue to happen if we were all as selfish and self absorbed as the OP?

people continue to want to discriminate others

Maybe it should be made to be, if people continue to want to discriminate others and wish apocalypse on those who just want to have a say on which medical treatment to have

I very much disagree.

Of course it can be kept private from most employers, are they going to spy on you?

They don't have to spy on you. They can for permission to access your medical records if you are on sick leave for example. Obviously you can refuse but they don't have to continue employing you.