Things go wrong in other countries, too

[avenueq]

I don't think it's helpful how irate people get about the UK government's failings. Yes there are plenty but this is a whole new situation and there are plenty of other countries making mistakes.
Before you ask - I'm not from the UK, but that means I have insight what happens elsewhere,
So to start -
The Eu has been slow in vaccine acquisition

In Austria, vaccinations could not start yet in some areas as not enogh needles (!) had been ordered

Countries with the most severe lockdown did not necessarily solve the Problem (Spain)

Countries who had supposedly excellent track and trace also had a second wave (Germany)

Anyone got other examples?

@mrshoho

What other western countries sent 11 million kids and teachers into schools in September with effectively nothing more than hand sanitisation?

The US, we did exactly that. To say that our government has handled this poorly is an understatement.

@lucywho123 do you have a source for that?

I agree with you op. On MN it's partly because it's a left leaning site but also because some posters seem to love the doom and gloom and drama of things going wrong. There are people in RL like that as well.

Someone I know was berating the Government the other day about the decision to prioritise one vaccine and was staying she wouldn't have it u til she could have both, awful decision, not supported by science etc. When I pointed out that JCVI had recommended this and it was supported by the 4 CMOS she apparently hasn't seen that in any of the media she's read!

As a civil servant of more than 20 years, I've worked for Labour, Coalition and Conservative Governments and let me tell you that they have more in common with each other than they'll ever have with a 'normal person'. I know the die hard Labour supporters won't accept it but it's true.

Plus I agree that the idea the rest of the world are that interested in us is completely wrong. We are just not that interesting!

Other countries have their own issues to be overly concerned with ours. Brexit made the papers elsewhere of course but no one is really into what else we're doing - they are all focused on themselves.

@truthlemon

Didn't someone mistakenly inject 5x the vaccine into patients in Germany?

Yes they hospitalised some German nurses be giving them x5 the dose of vaccine

BBC World Service did a little story on how vaccine rollout is slow in Europe -- Netherlands hasn't even started.

Hasn't Israel ran out of vaccines & now waiting...? Are they vaccinating under 18s? Have they even chosen a proven effective vaccine? Are Arab residents included? What about Palestinians who cross the checkpoints daily for work?

Florida has (per capita) as many new daily cases as UK. Their vaccine roll out is first come first serve. So no digital exclusion there.

Nobody talks about what's happening in Mexico, Brazil, Iceland, India, South Africa, Slovakia... there are so many ways to screw up.

UK is actually world leader in genomic sequencing, by many country miles.

@oldwhyno

It's enough to make you want a labour government for a term, just to quieten the moaning ninnies a bit.

then you go look at the labour shadow cabinet and come to your senses. Dodds as Chancellor and Nandy as foreign sec? god help us!

But it's pretty sad to think that you have to accept an inept government just because the main opposition is probably just as inept (or more so) isn't it?

I would just say "It's enough to make you want a competent government for a term".

And that's kind of the problem, instead of demanding more from the people in charge, everyone just lets them off the hook by saying "oh well, the alternatives would all have been rubbish too".

MedicineHat

You mention population density which suggests you think it has some relevance to success in managing a pandemic. Densely populated in Canada and densely populated in the UK are two very different things. Newfoundland and Labrador is substantially bigger (about 40%) than the whole of the UK, population of Newfoundland and Labrador 522,000 (approx) , population of the UK 68 million. I live in one of the more sparsely populated counties of England and we're crowded compared to average Canadian population density.

lucywho123 - do you have a link for that? I've been following this tracker ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations, but UK figures are only up to 27th December and Germany's up to 3rd January. Where have you found figures for 4th January?

They do but it does not defend the government's actions. I believe if Michael Gove or Jeremy Hunt had become Tory leader, there would not have been the delays in responses in March, September and December that have cost many lives.

Our world in data will update with the UK facts again on Thursday @avenueq - Germany administered over 34,000 doses yesterday (they update daily) - the UK are working at a rate of 28,000 doses a day

I find it bizarre that people are not questioning how countries that approve a vaccine after us are so much more prepared when it comes to actually giving it out. As much as I cant stand him, Peston tweeted earlier about how drawn out having his Mum vaccinated was. 15 minutes of questions on the phone. And the same questions then asked in person also? Surely the Government should have cut this down by now to ensure a more efficient and faster rollout?

No question other countries are making huge fuck ups but we are not doing any better than those countries - far from it

@FOJN I agree, our lower population density is helpful. I included it as a means to show that it is not the only indicator of how COVID numbers climb. Many parts of canada with lower population density than here are more badly affected because they haven't enacted sufficient protective measures.

Average population age matters too, hence why the mortality rate in many parts of Africa is lower

It's good to be in a country where there is enough information and free press to enable the pessimists and the optimists in their arguments. The Russians recently had to admit their deaths from covid are 186k not 56k, isn't it better to have had the ONS track ours all along? www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55474028

Some decisions by the British government(s) have been great, others have been shit, often overstated either way; the world transit through densely populated UK was always going to lead to early difficulties in a global pandemic and our scientists would always have been at the forefront of resolving it. People love the drama of complaining, and if you don't moan nothing gets better, so generally it's useful. It is healthy to balance the grumbling on occasion with good news, or just an acceptance that 2020 was the proverbial shit sandwich with troubles whichever way we had turned. The one long term upside I hope for is for more investment in science, healthcare infrastructure and UK-based critical manufacturing (new elements like vaccines and vials we will be grateful for soon!); the right noises are being made but let's see.

The horrors of some African and Central / South American hospital situations at points of the pandemic are cheeky unknown to the dramatics of MN, I wish I could forget the little green parcels of those 7 dead Zimbabwean babies. Fewer deaths if you don't count them = winning? For the Schadenfreude, I don't think the Polish prioritising celebrity vaccination before the elderly made it in yet.

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

In Belgium, a care home allowed a visit by a volunteer dressed as Santa. Turned out he was covid positive and 26 residents later died, with many more testing positive. Not the Belgian government’s fault but it shows that there are morons everywhere.

In all the pictures I’ve seen he had a mask and gloves on. I don’t think it’s fair to blame him, they don’t know 100% they died as a result of just him.

Yes they hospitalised some German nurses be giving them x5 the dose of vaccine

They went in to hospital as a precautionary measure, there were no adverse effects from that cock up.

They're taking it carefully because if they don't there'll be headlines in the Guardian and the Mail blaming any errors or mistakes on going too fast and not asking enough questions. This is particularly relevant because of the age and potential issues of this first tranche of recipients. I have an elderly relative who, it turned out after going through all the questions in painstaking fashion, probably shouldn't have the vaccine.

As with the start of any major project, you start carefully and speed up when you know where it's safe to take speed up. But of course the armchair experts know best.

Speaking to a friend in Belgium and they have been in locdkowns again and for 2 months so far with a 10pm curfew! Not allowed out after 10pm without an exemption....imagine that going down well here (not) people were more than ready to breaks rules for Xmas.

I just see Boris trying to keep things open as long as possible hence the last minute decisions so im not too fussed about that aspect

There definitely is a mumsnet theme of berating the governenf endlessly unless its Labour. Even if you point out how weel we're doing with vaccine progress its a refusal to admit it.

lucywho123 - thanks, but that data says the UK 7 day rolling average of vaccinations up to 27th December was 43,346. Have you found the 28,000 figure reported somewhere else?

@blalalala

They do but it does not defend the government's actions. I believe if Michael Gove or Jeremy Hunt had become Tory leader, there would not have been the delays in responses in March, September and December that have cost many lives.

But I did hear Jeremy hunt on the radio singing the praises of the way China had a police officer sat outside people’s houses to make sure they did not leave. No thanks Jeremy! He was also health minister for years and could have kept the ppe supply up to date and plentiful during his time if he do wished. But didn’t

When I spoke to my Uncles (aged 74 and 91) in The Hague, Netherlands at the weekend they had no idea when vaccines would be starting over there, they were hoping late this week.

Coronavirus has run rife over there and, I believe, their social distancing distance was always less than our 2m rule. Additionally, from what they have told me, Amsterdam & other large Dutch cities had loads of people still out and about flouting all of the rules and cases were increasing rapidly. My Aunt near Rotterdam (aged 84) was still going out and able to book into a B&B after Christmas.

Its a bit of a clusterfuck everywhere, but, naturally, we are only interested in our own countries shitstorm dealing of a global pandemic.

@WhenPidgeonsCry It's very sad and depressing that the opposition is so weak at the moment. The whole country needs an effective opposition party, one that isn't pulling itself apart from the inside.

I don't believe bitching and whining on social media (not you!) is going to achieve much, not that you'd know it from the amount of energy people put into it. I think most SM is driving division and polarity, more effectively than useful discourse.

Germany gave more vaccines out yesterday than we did despite approving the vaccine after us.

They don't get a good write up here;

30 Dec - The European Union’s mass vaccination campaign came under fire on Tuesday, after Italians accused Germany of grabbing too much vaccine ...

In Stralsund on the far northern coast of Germany, eight care-home workers were injected with five times the recommended dosage of the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine.

A further vaccine malfunction, this time in southern Germany, saw officials transport the Pfizer–BioNTech vaccine, which needs to be stored at about -70C, in a picnic hamper cool box that failed to keep it at the required temperature. Around 1,000 doses had to be returned.

www.marketwatch.com/story/germany-accused-of-grabbing-too-much-vaccine-citizens-also-injected-with-five-times-the-recommended-dosage-11609259607

Generally I think it is good we have a critical press as it does move things along to some extent. It’s annoying when it’s unfair (as Meghan would agree!) and does not give credit for the good stuff because it’s Boris or whatever reason. It’ll be interesting to watch how the Guardian handle the EU vaccine roll out.
North Korea have no deaths or even cases and a very happy press but on balance I prefer to take my chances here

I’ve been very critical of the government at times, but one thing I will say is that I am very impressed with our genomic surveillance program. We went from having almost zero surveillance in March to easily the most comprehensive in the world, and that enabled us to detect and understand this new variant. Going forward our ability to monitor mutations and reinfections with this program will set us in good stead.

Someone mentioned Mexico
news.yahoo.com/americans-traveling-mexico-city-flee-212716524.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20vc2VhcmNoP3E9YW1lcmljYW5zK3RyYXZlbGxpbmcrdG8rbWV4aWNvJmZvcm09QVBJUEgxJlBDPUFQUEw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANh9lVFAUmrDXyxn_mEzMmy0J6zSqQrlOsj3DSOdRyNk1L6btI1c3CeqqZsSAj5VayPYJxMMI8NF9AVGjIGq0ISS07A4xl_PtD8lYf6ue6DbyouYIwn6fbxiFLWRavFd_LPek7iZSWJOi8AzBhKsihkKEw-kmZ216AmS8jH4R59J
Americans are heading to Mexico to avoid lockdown

Germany gave more vaccines out yesterday than we did despite approving the vaccine after us.

How would anyone know this. Our figures are updated on a Thursday and only include figured up to the Sunday previous to it. Is there another place where we can see daily figures that I don't know about?